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- Cops arrest nurse because she refused to draw blood from an unconscious patient
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obey the law unless you are responsible for upholding the law, then f*** the law!
Dallas Cowboys : 13 - 3
Dallas Mavs : Dirk Nowitzki: 30, 005 points (6th all time) 1814 from Wilt |
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I hope this becomes national news, and I hope this cop gets s***canned. Awful.
Gt: justaguy3492
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There's probably more to this story.
Also if a doctor ordered a serum ethanol panel on an unconscious patient, the nurse either must do it or find a nurse who will. Ethanol poisoning is potentially lethal. Refusing to draw labs on a sick patient is really bad.
Physician [Internal Medicine]
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why the f*** did he think he could do a blood draw without a warrant.
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lilORANG posted...
why the f*** did he think he could do a blood draw without a warrant. If they're in a hospital and a doctor orders it, yes obviously. We don't ask unconscious and potentially unstable patients if they're OK with us getting labs.
Physician [Internal Medicine]
(edited 3 days ago)
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Coffeebeanz posted...
There's probably more to this story. http://www.dailyitem.com/news/supreme-court-says-police-need-warrant-to-draw-blood/article_43bce910-3d27-11e6-b174-271e3bd896a5.html Also as far as we can tell, no doctor ordered it and it sounds like the person on the phone was her supervisor who was also saying that it was against hospital policy.
Gt: justaguy3492
(edited 3 days ago)
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Not enough details. If this was someone trying to steal a pint donation for Harvey, heart may have been in the right place but I agree with the nurse.
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justaguy3492 posted...
Coffeebeanz posted...There's probably more to this story. Not the same. They were conscious and not hospitalized. The original story TC posted is about an unconscious intoxicated patient. A doctor doesn't need a warrant to draw labs on such a patient and a nurse that refuses is not doing their job.
Physician [Internal Medicine]
(edited 3 days ago)
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Coffeebeanz posted...
If they're in a hospital and a doctor orders it, yes obviously. a doctor didn't order it and cops need warrants to secure blood draws without consent. Literally every cop takes a course on this in the academy. |
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Coffeebeanz posted...
Not the same. They were conscious and not hospitalized. Doesn't matter if it's the same situation the law is the law. Police must get a warrant to draw blood if the patient doesn't consent.
Gt: justaguy3492
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lilORANG posted...
Coffeebeanz posted...If they're in a hospital and a doctor orders it, yes obviously. They're literally in a hospital. Hell you can see the HIPAA NPI disposal bins in the background.
Physician [Internal Medicine]
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Coffeebeanz posted...
They're literally in a hospital. you think cops can violate the 4th amendment because they are in a hospital? Stick to your smartphone gimmick. |
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"There's probably more to this story."
>proceeds to make up the story he wants. You show me a doctor ordering it and fine, but from that video (the only evidence we have) the cop is asking for the blood sample and arrests her when she refuses.
Gt: justaguy3492
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lilORANG posted...
Coffeebeanz posted...They're literally in a hospital. Doctors can. We don't know if a doctor ordered it because we aren't given enough information. Excuse me for not joining the mob mentality generation.
Physician [Internal Medicine]
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justaguy3492 posted...
"There's probably more to this story." I didn't make up anything. In my very first post I said we don't have enough information to make a reasonable conclusion. Then I explained a scenario where this would be justified. Not saying that's what happened, but we don't have enough of the story to say it isn't.
Physician [Internal Medicine]
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Coffeebeanz posted...
Doctors can. We don't know if a doctor ordered it because we aren't given enough information. Excuse me for not joining the mob mentality generation. Sure, the doctor can order it, but they can't give it to the police. You know, the 4th amendment and all. You should know this if you are a doctor.
(edited 3 days ago)
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Coffeebeanz posted...
Doctors can. We don't know if a doctor ordered it because we aren't given enough information. doctors can because they are supposed to save lives. 1) it doesn't seem like a blood draw was a necessary medical procedure in these circumstances, 2) even if the nurse did take the sample the cops wouldn't be entitled to it. The hospital would have a duty to protect their patient's info. Cops need a warrant to get blood. |
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Why wont people just do what the cops say without trying making a fuss? They have a gun and a badge, that's not a fight you'r'e gonna win.
I got nothing
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tremain07 posted...
Why wont people just do what the cops say without trying making a fuss? They have a gun and a badge, that's not a fight you'r'e gonna win. well she may have been fired for violating hospital policy. She had what sounded like a supervisor or in house counsel for the hospital on the phone telling her not to do it. |
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Honestly, you should always be arrested/dealt with if you refuse an order from a officer of the law.
I don't get this new trend of, "I don't agree with the cops so f*** them!" thinking
- literal garbage
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tremain07 posted...
Why wont people just do what the cops say without trying making a fuss? They have a gun and a badge, that's not a fight you'r'e gonna win. lmao
Dallas Cowboys : 13 - 3
Dallas Mavs : Dirk Nowitzki: 30, 005 points (6th all time) 1814 from Wilt |
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lilORANG posted...
Coffeebeanz posted...Doctors can. We don't know if a doctor ordered it because we aren't given enough information. Any unconscious patient will have labs drawn if they're in the hospital. Not ordering a serum ethanol level would actually be malpractice. I can't imagine a scenario where the cops drop off an unconscious inebriated person to the ER and a serum drug screen / ethanol level isn't ordered. So unless the cops literally dragged this dude to a random nurse, bypassing the ER, and demanded a blood draw, there MUST be more to the story. That said, they are certainly under no obligation to (and in fact, legally should not) share that information with the police.
Physician [Internal Medicine]
(edited 3 days ago)
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so if we dont know what happened why is this news and why is this a topic?
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So this is a case of cops wanting the blood then. Yeah f*** that cop
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Fin_Dawg_004 posted...
tremain07 posted...Why wont people just do what the cops say without trying making a fuss? They have a gun and a badge, that's not a fight you'r'e gonna win. Okay, go ahead, give a cop any reason to be on guard around you or to arrest you, guess who they work for, guess who sides with them 90 percent of the time and guess who ultimately avoids punishment because of the blue wall? it's a pointless fight that will likely get you dead so just do what they say and hope they leave you alone afterwards, it's the safest bet.
I got nothing
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Coffeebeanz posted...
That said, they are certainly under no obligation to (and in fact, legally should not) share that information with the police. So you're admitting you're wrong then?
Gt: justaguy3492
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tremain07 posted...
Fin_Dawg_004 posted...tremain07 posted...Why wont people just do what the cops say without trying making a fuss? They have a gun and a badge, that's not a fight you'r'e gonna win. what if it got her fired? she has to weight the costs of losing her job over a night in jail |
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justaguy3492 posted...
Coffeebeanz posted...That said, they are certainly under no obligation to (and in fact, legally should not) share that information with the police. Are we talking about drawing blood or sharing information with law enforcement? Because she is being arrested for refusing to draw blood. In a hospital ER. As in, a chemically intoxicated unconscious patient is not having labs drawn because a nurse doesn't want to. That only goes with your argument if the cops found a way to literally bypass a doctor and demand the lab straight from a random nurse, which is insane. No, the hospital does not have to share information with law enforcement. Yes, the nurse is obligated to draw labs if a doctor orders it. The context of this scenario is everything.
Physician [Internal Medicine]
(edited 3 days ago)
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"Unconcious" is a completely irrelevant details
The actual punchline is that a cop can't order labs and, in a hospital, doesnt have authority over medical professionals.
Some say that his voice can only be heard by cats, and that he has two sets of knees... all we know is, he's called the Stig.
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daftpunk_mk5 posted...
"Unconcious" is a completely irrelevant details And you're assuming that the cops bypassed the ER, got to the actual medical area (there's PHI bins everywhere), bypassed all the doctors and demanded a random nurse to draw labs on a patient. If that's what actually happened, then you have an argument. I suspect the nurse got an order to draw labs from a physician and refused to do so based on misinterpreting the hospital's policy on drawing ethanol levels on patients who are arrested but not being admitted for treatment.
Physician [Internal Medicine]
(edited 3 days ago)
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BootyGif posted...
tremain07 posted...Fin_Dawg_004 posted...tremain07 posted...Why wont people just do what the cops say without trying making a fuss? They have a gun and a badge, that's not a fight you'r'e gonna win. Why would it get her fired? She would be cooperating with law enforcement like a good civilian is suppose to, they can't fire her for that, now she's in jail and s*** like that will definitely stain her career as a nurse for decades to come, nobody wants to hire a felon, it's why they all end up homeless, repeat offenders and or dead.
I got nothing
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Coffeebeanz posted...
justaguy3492 posted...Coffeebeanz posted...That said, they are certainly under no obligation to (and in fact, legally should not) share that information with the police. Why are you making up scenarios? This topic is about law enforcement. Everyone is talking about law enforcement. How doctors and nurses do their job is irrelevant to what the cop is allowed to do. You're just arguing to argue.
Mars ain't the kind of place to raise your kids.
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tremain07 posted...
BootyGif posted...tremain07 posted...Fin_Dawg_004 posted...tremain07 posted...Why wont people just do what the cops say without trying making a fuss? They have a gun and a badge, that's not a fight you'r'e gonna win. Lol, she won't be a felon. I doubt charges are even pressed, considering the cop is 100% in the wrong.
#FeelTheBernieSanders
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Coffeebeanz posted...
Are we talking about drawing blood or sharing information with law enforcement? Did you even watch the video? The cop tells her to draw his blood. She says she can't because of hospital regs and he needs to obtain a warrant. He then arrests her for hindering prosecution. It's not about willingness to draw blood. What would happen if she caved in and ended up giving it to the cop? She would get fired. She and the Hospital will be sued by the patent for malpractice She most likely have her nursing license revoked, basically blacklisting her from any aand all nursing jobs. ect ect
(edited 3 days ago)
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lilORANG posted...
Coffeebeanz posted...justaguy3492 posted...Coffeebeanz posted...That said, they are certainly under no obligation to (and in fact, legally should not) share that information with the police. It's not "arguing to argue". They are clearly past the waiting room in the ER. The patient is required to have an attending physician by this point. You're assuming that the cops are bypassing everyone and demanding labs to be drawn. We don't have enough information to say that. You're jumping to conclusions. The end result is this: If a physician ordered the labs for any legitimate medical reason: The nurse is in the wrong. If no labs were ordered and the cops are just demanding an ethanol screen: The cops are in the wrong. Either way, she wasn't arrested for failing to share the results of a lab (which she would have every right to do), she was being arrested for refusing to DRAW a lab. The question is who asked her to draw it - the cops or a physician.
Physician [Internal Medicine]
(edited 3 days ago)
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Coffeebeanz posted...
justaguy3492 posted...Coffeebeanz posted...That said, they are certainly under no obligation to (and in fact, legally should not) share that information with the police. You haven't even read the article that was posted have you? Here I'll help! In a written report, Payne said he was responding to a request from another police department to get the blood sample, to determine if the patient had any chemical substances in his system at the time of the crash. Payne explained the “exigent circumstances and implied consent law” to Wubbels, but she said “her police won't allow me to obtain the blood sample without a warrant,” his report says.
Gt: justaguy3492
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Coffeebeanz posted...
lilORANG posted...Coffeebeanz posted...justaguy3492 posted...Coffeebeanz posted...That said, they are certainly under no obligation to (and in fact, legally should not) share that information with the police. Omg, stop
Mars ain't the kind of place to raise your kids.
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tremain07 posted...
Why wont people just do what the cops say without trying making a fuss? They have a gun and a badge, that's not a fight you'r'e gonna win. "just shut up and take it and let them do whatever they want"...no thanks. |
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TheVipaGTS posted...
tremain07 posted...Why wont people just do what the cops say without trying making a fuss? They have a gun and a badge, that's not a fight you'r'e gonna win. seems to be a motto in this country lately |
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You haven't even read the article that was posted have you? Here I'll help!
In a written report, Payne said he was responding to a request from another police department to get the blood sample, to determine if the patient had any chemical substances in his system at the time of the crash. Payne explained the “exigent circumstances and implied consent law” to Wubbels, but she said “her police won't allow me to obtain the blood sample without a warrant,” his report says. Look, I work in an ER every day. If you bring an unconscious patient to the ER, that patient cannot leave the hospital until they're stabilized and conscious. You're telling me they drove an unconscious patient to some random hospital, bypassed the waiting room, dragged him up to a random nurse and demanded a serum ethanol level, all while the hospital apparently has no intention of admitting or treating a patient they are required by law to treat? That's completely insane. Holy s*** how do you not understand this? The patient is clearly and obviously already admitted to the hospital - by virtue of being unconscious and intoxicated, if nothing else. If he's admitted to the hospital, you can bet your ass an ER doc ordered routine labs. So yes, some context WOULD be nice.
Physician [Internal Medicine]
(edited 3 days ago)
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Coffeebeanz posted...
You haven't even read the article that was posted have you? Here I'll help! ...ok, but a few posts ago you literally said that legally speaking they shouldn't give the sample to the officer. There's no context needed, the officer HIMSELF said he wanted the sample to take to another department. She wasn't arrested for failing to to follow a doctors order, she was arrested for failing to comply with the cops (illegal) order.
Gt: justaguy3492
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Coffeebeanz posted...
Look, I work in an ER every day. If you bring an unconscious patient to the ER, that patient cannot leave the hospital until they're stabilized and conscious. You're telling me they drove an unconscious patient to some random hospital, bypassed the waiting room, dragged him up to a random nurse and demanded a serum ethanol level, all while the hospital apparently has no intention of admitting or treating a patient they are required by law to treat? WATCH.THE.DAMN.VIDEO.AND.READ.THE.DAMN.STORY! Jesus H. Christ /meltdown |
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So if every nurse denied taking blood at that hospital would they arrest all of them?
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If most of the general scenario was caught on camera, cop was in the wrong.
Nurse WAS obeying the laws; hospital laws. She was following medical care policy. Which trump pissy ass police officer's in more typical situations. Doesn't matter if the person unconscious is a potential criminal. It's illegal to just hand over records and blood samples merely on an officer's say-so. Medical staff can lose their license and be charged with crimes just for doing that. This wasn't a case of nurse vs police rebellion. She was literally following established medical guidelines, the law. The cop, however, broke a couple of them himself.... And worse, he acted like he didn't know about the laws protecting medical information (a law officer's responsibility, they're SUPPOSED TO be at least familiar with that before they go charging in with handcuffs). He could have come back later with a warrant, etc. Instead he decided to be a power-jerking a****** and strong arm a staff member who was just a representative. It's pathetic. Clean-cut wrongful arrest.
Bite me like one of your French rolls.
http://www.imageupload.co.uk/images/2017/06/05/flcnpawn.png http://www.imageupload.co.uk/images/2017/06/05/84543589.gif |
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Obviously if this is simply that she's refusing to give the lab results to the cop, the cops are blatantly in the wrong.
But the title of the topic is "refused to draw blood", which raises the question of who asked her to do it, and why.
Physician [Internal Medicine]
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Coffeebeanz posted...
Obviously if this is simply that she's refusing to give the lab results to the cop, the cops are blatantly in the wrong. DirkDiggles posted... WATCH.THE.DAMN.VIDEO.AND.READ.THE.DAMN.STORY! Jesus H. Christ
Dallas Cowboys : 13 - 3
Dallas Mavs : Dirk Nowitzki: 30, 005 points (6th all time) 1814 from Wilt |
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Fin_Dawg_004 posted...
Coffeebeanz posted...Obviously if this is simply that she's refusing to give the lab results to the cop, the cops are blatantly in the wrong. I've done both. They don't give enough information.
Physician [Internal Medicine]
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Coffeebeanz posted...
Obviously if this is simply that she's refusing to give the lab results to the cop, the cops are blatantly in the wrong. If you're trolling, you're doing a phenomenal job because I am genuinely irked by the fact that you haven't taken the time to read the article posted OR google this and read one of the many other articles written about it. The cop himself, in a written prepared report, literally states that he wanted it because the guy was suspected of driving under the influence.
Gt: justaguy3492
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- Cops arrest nurse because she refused to draw blood from an unconscious patient
- Boards
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- Cops arrest nurse because she refused to draw blood from an unconscious patient
justaguy3492 posted...Coffeebeanz posted...
Obviously if this is simply that she's refusing to give the lab results to the cop, the cops are blatantly in the wrong.
But the title of the topic is "refused to draw blood", which raises the question of who asked her to do it, and why.
If you're trolling, you're doing a phenomenal job because I am genuinely irked by the fact that you haven't taken the time to read the article posted OR google this and read one of the many other articles written about it. The cop himself, in a written prepared report, literally states that he wanted it because the guy was suspected of driving under the influence.
He was also unconscious, in a motor vehicle accident, and in a hospital. There's no f***ing way the hospital is going to let him go back with the cops after the "blood draw", which means by this point he's been admitted and a trauma physician has already ordered routine labs and imaging. The nurse cannot refuse to do those. And obviously the cops can't ask the nurse for the RESULTS of those labs, but you know what? Nurses can't give results of labs to ANYONE, even patients. And the physician has every right to tell the cops they cannot see any of the patient's PHI.
It doesn't matter why the cops brought him - he's under the hospital's care now. If a nurse isn't following orders on an unstable patient, then that's a problem. The only way your scenario works without requiring any more context is if the cops managed to bring this unconscious, just-had-a-motor-vehicle-accident patient to a hospital and the hospital had no intention of evaluating him. Which is absolutely insane.Physician [Internal Medicine](edited 3 days ago)Coffeebeanz posted...He was also unconscious, in a motor vehicle accident, and in a hospital. There's no f***ing way the hospital is going to let him go back with the cops after the "blood draw".
what does that have to do with anything? they wanted the blood now to test it before an alleged alcohol left his system..he doesn't have to "go back with the cops" immediately after. They draw the blood, send it in for tests, the man stays at the hospital and is released to police after he recovers pending the result of that test...what are you even saying anymore? If someone else ordered it then where is that person? Why would they go through a cop? Why is she being arrested before the person who you claim asked her to do it stepped in and directly told her to do it?(edited 3 days ago)The ER doc would obviously have ordered a serum ethanol level as soon as inebriation was suspected. Granted, if the cops are just trying to push the nurse to do it as quickly as possible so they can send in the results, that's straight-up illegal.
But. We. Don't. Know. That.
Contextually speaking, the nurse SHOULD draw the labs as soon as possible for purely medical reasons. And then she can tell the cops to f*** off because they aren't allowed to have the results without his consent. The issue at hand here is that she's refusing to DRAW labs. Not that she's refusing to give away private health information.Physician [Internal Medicine](edited 3 days ago)So an ER Doc ordered it, and rather than tell the nurse themselves they decided to relay it to the cop that brought the suspect in. Then the Cop demanded it from the nurse and she was arrested. At that point the ER Doc and no one else in the hospital decided to prevent that...
...yea man makes sense.TheVipaGTS posted...So an ER Doc ordered it, and rather than tell the nurse themselves they decided to relay it to the cop that brought the suspect in. Then the Cop demanded it from the nurse and she was arrested. At that point the ER Doc and no one else in the hospital decided to prevent that...
...yea man makes sense.
I don't think the cops should've been involved in ANY capacity. It's none of their f***ing business. But it violates EMTALA to refuse to draw labs on an unstable patient. They theoretically could arrest her for endangering a patient - a douchebag thing to do, to be sure, but also technically legal.Physician [Internal Medicine](edited 3 days ago)Coffeebeanz posted...The ER doc would obviously have ordered a serum ethanol level as soon as inebriation was suspected. Granted, if the cops are just trying to push the nurse to do it as quickly as possible so they can send in the results, that's straight-up illegal.
But. We. Don't. Know. That.
Contextually speaking, the nurse SHOULD draw the labs as soon as possible for purely medical reasons. And then she can tell the cops to f*** off because they aren't allowed to have the results without his consent.
at the beginning of the video she literally is explaining to the cop she can't give the patient's blood work to them without a warrant, patient consent, or arrest.
what are you even arguingDallas Cowboys : 13 - 3
Dallas Mavs : Dirk Nowitzki: 30, 005 points (6th all time) 1814 from Wiltat the beginning of the video she literally is explaining to the cop she can't give the patient's blood work to them without a warrant, patient consent, or arrest.
She is using that argument to refuse to draw the labs, which has nothing to do with whether or not the cops are entitled to their results. That's the problem.Physician [Internal Medicine]It's almost like Proudclad is still with us.You've fought the strongest, the second strongest, the fourth strongest, and the weakest master! Now you see the true advantage of being third strongest master!Coffeebeanz posted...The ER doc would obviously have ordered a serum ethanol level as soon as inebriation was suspected. Granted, if the cops are just trying to push the nurse to do it as quickly as possible so they can send in the results, that's straight-up illegal.
But. We. Don't. Know. That.
Contextually speaking, the nurse SHOULD draw the labs as soon as possible for purely medical reasons. And then she can tell the cops to f*** off because they aren't allowed to have the results without his consent. The issue at hand here is that she's refusing to DRAW labs. Not that she's refusing to give away private health information.
"Payne was temporarily suspended from the department’s blood-draw program — where officers are trained as phlebotomists so they can get blood samples — but remains on duty, Shearer said"
I don't know where you're getting the idea that the hospital didn't already treat this man for his medical conditions (especially considering he was burned pretty badly). The cop isn't asking for the results, he wants blood. If you would just read the damn article you wouldn't be so ignorant to this situation, but I think I'm catching on to the gimmick and I'm gonna try to not let you rustle my jimmies.Gt: justaguy3492The cop isn't asking for the results, he wants blood.
Then that's clearly illegal. Full stop.Physician [Internal Medicine]Coffeebeanz posted...The cop isn't asking for the results, he wants blood.
Then that's clearly illegal. Full stop.
Good thing we had our venture into hypothetical land to defend the cop before reading.@Coffeebeanz
You think its crazy to suggest that a law enforcer would do something like that, but we have video evidence of officers planting drugs, there's one of an officer sitting on top of a black person and beating him up. Nothing should surprise you.So cliffnotes.
A criminal gets into a car chase with police.
The criminal causes an accident during the chase killing himself and injuring another dude.
The injured dude gets into the hospital burned and uncautious.
-The police get into problems when causing damage or accidents during pursuit.
So the police tries to get the bloodwork of the victim of the car crash caused by the chase of the now dead criminal. Just to blame the victim with drunk driving if the test is positive. That way they can bust him for drunk driving and are not at fault.
Nurse refuses under order from her supervisor to give them the blood.
Cop powertrips and assaults her on the spot to arrest her for refusing his 'order'.
If she gave them the blood she would break the law and hospital regulations, probably get fired and could never work in the medical field again.
Please tell me what I am understanding wrong here.(edited 3 days ago)A5modeu5 posted...So cliffnotes.
A criminal gets into a car chase with police.
The criminal causes an accident during the chase killing himself and injuring another dude.
The injured dude gets into the hospital burned and uncautious.
-The police get into problems when causing damage or accidents during pursuit.
So the police tries to get the bloodwork of the victim of the car crash caused by the chase of the now dead criminal. Just to blame the victim with drunk driving if the test is positive. That way they can bust him for drunk driving and are not at fault.
Nurse refuses under order from her supervisor to give them the blood.
Cop powertrips and assaults her on the spot to arrest her for refusing his 'order'.
If she gave them the blood she would break the law and hospital regulations, probably get fired and could never work in the medical field again.
Please tell me what I am understanding wrong here.
That's exactly what happenedCruelBuffalo posted...
That's exactly what happened
f*** the cop. I hope the nurse sues the state and wins big.literal_garbage posted...Honestly, you should always be arrested/dealt with if you refuse an order from a officer of the law.
I don't get this new trend of, "I don't agree with the cops so f*** them!" thinking
Just because they are an officer doesnt mean you are obligated to listen to them nor is it grounds to be arrested if your not actually violating the law. An officers job and duty is to enforce & uphold the law not dictate it based on their wants. This officer and anyone like him who makes an illegal arrest because they didnt get their way should be removed from their position.
Here's a video showing more context. The cops were 100% in the wrong here. They knew they wouldn't be able to get a warrant, as admitted early in the video.CE Unleashed! The first of two gamefaqs based magic sets.
https://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/575966-magic-madness/75611395lilORANG posted...Coffeebeanz posted...
If they're in a hospital and a doctor orders it, yes obviously.
a doctor didn't order it and cops need warrants to secure blood draws without consent. Literally every cop takes a course on this in the academy.
Law Enforcement can forcibly draw blood against someone's will in the event of a DUI with fatalities.
That's the only exception I'm aware of..../\_/\
...\*.*/Watching that video pisses me off. Hopefully all the officers who assisted with that arrest are fired and banned from ever working in criminal justice again.
Also, hopefully the officers involved are all sued for every penny they have. Retirement, college savings for their children, valuable assets...etc. Take it all. f*** suing the state...the taxpayers fit that bill. Make the actual individuals responsible. We need to send a message that it's not okay to do this.God bless youPiersons_Fox posted...lilORANG posted...
Coffeebeanz posted...
If they're in a hospital and a doctor orders it, yes obviously.
a doctor didn't order it and cops need warrants to secure blood draws without consent. Literally every cop takes a course on this in the academy.
Law Enforcement can forcibly draw blood against someone's will in the event of a DUI with fatalities.
That's the only exception I'm aware of.
But don't they still need a warrant? And does that apply to every state?God bless youfenderbender321 posted...Piersons_Fox posted...
lilORANG posted...
Coffeebeanz posted...
If they're in a hospital and a doctor orders it, yes obviously.
a doctor didn't order it and cops need warrants to secure blood draws without consent. Literally every cop takes a course on this in the academy.
Law Enforcement can forcibly draw blood against someone's will in the event of a DUI with fatalities.
That's the only exception I'm aware of.
But don't they still need a warrant? And does that apply to every state?
They have no proof it was DUI, though.
The crash was caused by a criminal who died in the process.Piersons_Fox posted...lilORANG posted...
Coffeebeanz posted...
If they're in a hospital and a doctor orders it, yes obviously.
a doctor didn't order it and cops need warrants to secure blood draws without consent. Literally every cop takes a course on this in the academy.
Law Enforcement can forcibly draw blood against someone's will in the event of a DUI with fatalities.
That's the only exception I'm aware of.
What's the authority on that? It just seems completely wrong based on what i know of the 4th amendment, but i ain't saying its impossible.Mars ain't the kind of place to raise your kids.They still need to obtain a warrant. Once that warrant is obtained they can force it out of you but it's my understanding that a warrant must be in place and it doesn't seem like the nurse in this incident had one.
If you refuse or can't give a breath test they can arrest you TO take your blood but they still need to go through the proper channels to do so I believe.So @Coffeebeanz it looks like blood was already drawn by the hospital and the charge nurse was stating that the officer, who was a licensed phlebotomist, was not allowed to draw himself since he had no probable cause & is not employed by the hospital, and it would be malpractice by the hospital and a HIPAA violation on her end.(edited 3 days ago)TheVipaGTS posted...They still need to obtain a warrant. Once that warrant is obtained they can force it out of you but it's my understanding that a warrant must be in place and it doesn't seem like the nurse in this incident had one.
If you refuse or can't give a breath test they can arrest you TO take your blood but they still need to go through the proper channels to do so I believe.
It varies by state. In GA, refusing to take a breath test is an automatic 1-year license suspension but it can actually get you out of a DUI if you fight it. Once you blow into the machine and they can prove you were drunk though, you're f***ed.lilORANG posted...Piersons_Fox posted...
lilORANG posted...
Coffeebeanz posted...
If they're in a hospital and a doctor orders it, yes obviously.
a doctor didn't order it and cops need warrants to secure blood draws without consent. Literally every cop takes a course on this in the academy.
Law Enforcement can forcibly draw blood against someone's will in the event of a DUI with fatalities.
That's the only exception I'm aware of.
What's the authority on that? It just seems completely wrong based on what i know of the 4th amendment, but i ain't saying its impossible.
Never mind. You're right.
https://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/12pdf/11-1425_cb8e.pdf
Tldr: This ruling overrules a previous decision that did allow involuntary withdrawal of blood. The reasoning that has changed is because of the change in technology and the efficiency in which BAC can be extracted and tested. The exigent circumstances rule no longer apply. An officer will need a warrant before involuntary blood withdrawal..../\_/\
...\*.*/ChromaticAngel posted...TheVipaGTS posted...
They still need to obtain a warrant. Once that warrant is obtained they can force it out of you but it's my understanding that a warrant must be in place and it doesn't seem like the nurse in this incident had one.
If you refuse or can't give a breath test they can arrest you TO take your blood but they still need to go through the proper channels to do so I believe.
It varies by state. In GA, refusing to take a breath test is an automatic 1-year license suspension but it can actually get you out of a DUI if you fight it. Once you blow into the machine and they can prove you were drunk though, you're f***ed.
If someone refuses to submit to a BAC that person will be charged with the implied consent law. Which carries the exact same punishments as a DUI conviction.
If you honestly believe that you might be below the limit, it's better to just roll the dice..../\_/\
...\*.*/So yeah, just read an up to date article on the situation. The police chief apologized to the nurse. The police were wrong in this case 100%. The officer has been suspended from that role.God bless youfenderbender321 posted...So yeah, just read an up to date article on the situation. The police chief apologized to the nurse. The police were wrong in this case 100%. The officer has been suspended from that role.
Cop should be in prisonBootyGif posted...fenderbender321 posted...
So yeah, just read an up to date article on the situation. The police chief apologized to the nurse. The police were wrong in this case 100%. The officer has been suspended from that role.
Cop should be in prison
Should be, but won't be.God bless youfenderbender321 posted...BootyGif posted...
fenderbender321 posted...
So yeah, just read an up to date article on the situation. The police chief apologized to the nurse. The police were wrong in this case 100%. The officer has been suspended from that role.
Cop should be in prison
Should be, but won't be.
Yeah -_-River Song: Well, I was off to this gay gypsy bar mitzvah for the disabled when I thought 'Gosh, the Third Reich's a bit rubbish, I think i'll kill the Fuhrer'No matter how you look at it it's bad. He's either ignorant of the law he's supposed to uphold and arrested an innocent person by force, he has a power trip complex and was asserting himself or he asked someone to break the law so he could catch someone.
...none of those are good things.What's next...cops showing up and shutting down little girls' lemonade stands?God bless youtremain07 posted...Why wont people just do what the cops say without trying making a fuss? They have a gun and a badge, that's not a fight you'r'e gonna win.
Because we're human beings with rights, not mindless drones who think authority is always in the right and has our best interests.We're whalers on the moon, we carry a harpoon, but there ain't no whales, so we tell tall tales, and sing our whaling tune.Deadpool_18 posted...tremain07 posted...
Why wont people just do what the cops say without trying making a fuss? They have a gun and a badge, that's not a fight you'r'e gonna win.
Because we're human beings with rights, not mindless drones who think authority is always in the right and has our best interests.
Not only that, professionals are obligated in their duty to not do certain things. For the nurse, this was one of the things. She was thinking of herself and for her profession.The chief of police and mayor already said the police man is wrong, is currently suspended and will be further internally investigated. Justice prevail on this one, yall.Don't like it? Don't watch it. It's that simple
FFBE ID: 196 912 851 1000+ MAG FryeviaVeggeta X posted...The chief of police and mayor already said the police man is wrong, is currently suspended and will be further internally investigated. Justice prevail on this one, yall.
Justice wont prevail until a suit follows by the nurse or someone else over what happened. Its not like this cop was in the middle of a heated life or death situation that required a split second decision. It was more like: Do this. No? You're coming with me. Totally unacceptable.Veggeta X posted...The chief of police and mayor already said the police man is wrong, is currently suspended and will be further internally investigated. Justice prevail on this one, yall.
I wouldn't necessarily be so sure. I believe they said the cop was only suspended from phlebotomy duties. Even if he gets charged (he better be facing serious charges) cops tend to get favorable outcomes.
I'm just saying, but I've seen way too many cases where a cop is very clearly in the wrong and they get off with a slap on the wrist.
The ",but the cops protect us" defense gets used effectively way too much.just tell them all your base doesn't belong to us because we were getting stoned...they'll understand-Ken156There's still an internal investigation going on so we shall see what happens next. Can't be deebie downers about it.Don't like it? Don't watch it. It's that simple
FFBE ID: 196 912 851 1000+ MAG FryeviaVeggeta X posted...There's still an internal investigation going on so we shall see what happens next. Can't be deebie downers about it.
Yes hopefully the officers entire life is ruined for this, but that never seems to happen. Guy should be fired and jailed, but I feel like fired is the only realistic outcome.
Sounds like he could personally be sued by the nurse so hopefully she takes everything he is worth from him.
This cop really deserves to rot. Abuse of an authority position is such a downright rotten thing to do.just tell them all your base doesn't belong to us because we were getting stoned...they'll understand-Ken156lol wow @Coffeebeanz what the f*** were you even trying to accomplish with your posts in this topic
was it actually anything other than "hey look at me i'm a doctor"?
ridiculousDuranOfForcena posted...lol wow @Coffeebeanz what the f*** were you even trying to accomplish with your posts in this topic
was it actually anything other than "hey look at me i'm a doctor"?
ridiculous
Yeah she's flexing here. Just goes to show MDs flex too.sigPigs gonna oink.In Belichick we TrustHope the cop rots, as well. Get a civil suit going ASAP, miss.Welcome to the Brave New World of 1984! Current temp: Fahrenheit 451
It's never a bad day, and always a good night, so BE HAPPY and enjoy your stay!Dathrowed1 posted...DuranOfForcena posted...
lol wow @Coffeebeanz what the f*** were you even trying to accomplish with your posts in this topic
was it actually anything other than "hey look at me i'm a doctor"?
ridiculous
Yeah she's flexing here. Just goes to show MDs flex too.
She does this quite a bit tbh. Like every time I ever hear her talk about medical stuff I know she is going to have a bad opinion.
It's pretty bad when the resident doctor in training seems to be one of the least credible on medical issues. Her posts ITT were clearly not at all about discovering the truth of this situation, but of showing off her medical knowledge just trying to sound smarter than everybody else.
The irony is that her flexing her knowledge actually made her out to be a pretty ignorant person.
She comes off pretty cool and likable when discussing video games and stuff like that though.
Her political opinions are pretty bad as well as she is the epitome of the "I'm not a Trump supporter, but..."just tell them all your base doesn't belong to us because we were getting stoned...they'll understand-Ken156Cops just think they're above the law.literal_garbage posted...Honestly, you should always be arrested/dealt with if you refuse an order from a officer of the law.
I don't get this new trend of, "I don't agree with the cops so f*** them!" thinking
What the f*** is wrong with you.Bender: Well, everybody, I just saved a turtle. What have you done with your lives?She deserves much more than an apology.CE Unleashed! The first of two gamefaqs based magic sets.
https://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/575966-magic-madness/75611395cjsdowg posted...literal_garbage posted...
Honestly, you should always be arrested/dealt with if you refuse an order from a officer of the law.
I don't get this new trend of, "I don't agree with the cops so f*** them!" thinking
What the f*** is wrong with you.
Literal garbage.- Boards
- Current Events
- Cops arrest nurse because she refused to draw blood from an unconscious patient
- Boards
- Current Events
- Cops arrest nurse because she refused to draw blood from an unconscious patient
TommyG663513 posted...Dathrowed1 posted...
DuranOfForcena posted...
lol wow @Coffeebeanz what the f*** were you even trying to accomplish with your posts in this topic
was it actually anything other than "hey look at me i'm a doctor"?
ridiculous
Yeah she's flexing here. Just goes to show MDs flex too.
She does this quite a bit tbh. Like every time I ever hear her talk about medical stuff I know she is going to have a bad opinion.
It's pretty bad when the resident doctor in training seems to be one of the least credible on medical issues. Her posts ITT were clearly not at all about discovering the truth of this situation, but of showing off her medical knowledge just trying to sound smarter than everybody else.
The irony is that her flexing her knowledge actually made her out to be a pretty ignorant person.
She comes off pretty cool and likable when discussing video games and stuff like that though.
Her political opinions are pretty bad as well as she is the epitome of the "I'm not a Trump supporter, but..."
Bruh, you flex toosigDathrowed1 posted...TommyG663513 posted...
Dathrowed1 posted...
DuranOfForcena posted...
lol wow @Coffeebeanz what the f*** were you even trying to accomplish with your posts in this topic
was it actually anything other than "hey look at me i'm a doctor"?
ridiculous
Yeah she's flexing here. Just goes to show MDs flex too.
She does this quite a bit tbh. Like every time I ever hear her talk about medical stuff I know she is going to have a bad opinion.
It's pretty bad when the resident doctor in training seems to be one of the least credible on medical issues. Her posts ITT were clearly not at all about discovering the truth of this situation, but of showing off her medical knowledge just trying to sound smarter than everybody else.
The irony is that her flexing her knowledge actually made her out to be a pretty ignorant person.
She comes off pretty cool and likable when discussing video games and stuff like that though.
Her political opinions are pretty bad as well as she is the epitome of the "I'm not a Trump supporter, but..."
Bruh, you flex too
LOL ok budjust tell them all your base doesn't belong to us because we were getting stoned...they'll understand-Ken156TommyG663513 posted...Dathrowed1 posted...
TommyG663513 posted...
Dathrowed1 posted...
DuranOfForcena posted...
lol wow @Coffeebeanz what the f*** were you even trying to accomplish with your posts in this topic
was it actually anything other than "hey look at me i'm a doctor"?
ridiculous
Yeah she's flexing here. Just goes to show MDs flex too.
She does this quite a bit tbh. Like every time I ever hear her talk about medical stuff I know she is going to have a bad opinion.
It's pretty bad when the resident doctor in training seems to be one of the least credible on medical issues. Her posts ITT were clearly not at all about discovering the truth of this situation, but of showing off her medical knowledge just trying to sound smarter than everybody else.
The irony is that her flexing her knowledge actually made her out to be a pretty ignorant person.
She comes off pretty cool and likable when discussing video games and stuff like that though.
Her political opinions are pretty bad as well as she is the epitome of the "I'm not a Trump supporter, but..."
Bruh, you flex too
LOL ok bud
Dude you know you like flexing. Just be real with yourselfsigLOL ok budjust tell them all your base doesn't belong to us because we were getting stoned...they'll understand-Ken156tried to take a nurse's joy because she wouldn't poke a man.
he's got a badge, but didn't have enough for his commands to be obeyed.Never let those intent on misunderstanding you be the narrator to your story!
BAWSE!Nurse here
Holy f*** people defending this cop
This f***ing boardStarted from the bottom now we hereTommyG663513 posted...Dathrowed1 posted...
DuranOfForcena posted...
lol wow @Coffeebeanz what the f*** were you even trying to accomplish with your posts in this topic
was it actually anything other than "hey look at me i'm a doctor"?
ridiculous
Yeah she's flexing here. Just goes to show MDs flex too.
She does this quite a bit tbh. Like every time I ever hear her talk about medical stuff I know she is going to have a bad opinion.
It's pretty bad when the resident doctor in training seems to be one of the least credible on medical issues. Her posts ITT were clearly not at all about discovering the truth of this situation, but of showing off her medical knowledge just trying to sound smarter than everybody else.
The irony is that her flexing her knowledge actually made her out to be a pretty ignorant person.
She comes off pretty cool and likable when discussing video games and stuff like that though.
Her political opinions are pretty bad as well as she is the epitome of the "I'm not a Trump supporter, but..."
Uh, her medical knowledge is on point and you're not really credentialed or knowledgeable enough to say otherwise. Don't hate cuz you ain't(edited 2 days ago)Shame the cop isn't going to get fired. But the city will owe the nurse and hospital a hefty sum when all is said and done.Pokemon Moon FC: 1994-2190-5020
IGN: VanessaShe should have leapt to the defence of a fellow medical professional instead of some dumb hick cop
Doctors always s*** on nursesStarted from the bottom now we here(edited 2 days ago)What do you guys have coffeebeanz tagged as? This should be good...I wish we all wavedhaloiscoolisbak posted...She should have leapt to the defence of a fellow medical professional instead of some dumb hick cop
Doctors always s*** on nurses
I think what everyone who's not part of medical decision making did was misinterpret what she said as some defense of the cop, despite the fact that she preemptively went out of her way to state the cop was in the wrong in X scenario multiple times because she could foresee all of the absolutely pointless b****ing. And multiple people still b****ed over something I quite frankly never saw as defense of a cop.Pampers in arms strikes again. Arrest when they don't get their way, like toddlers. Surprised nobody got shot.yankees ws chizzampstremain07 posted...Why wont people just do what the cops say without trying making a fuss? They have a gun and a badge, that's not a fight you'r'e gonna win.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_they_came_...yankees ws chizzampsfenderbender321 posted...Watching that video pisses me off. Hopefully all the officers who assisted with that arrest are fired and banned from ever working in criminal justice again.
They won't.Also, hopefully the officers involved are all sued for every penny they have. Retirement, college savings for their children, valuable assets...etc. Take it all. f*** suing the state...the taxpayers fit that bill. Make the actual individuals responsible. We need to send a message that it's not okay to do this.
The officers will win.yankees ws chizzampsMrPeppers posted...haloiscoolisbak posted...
She should have leapt to the defence of a fellow medical professional instead of some dumb hick cop
Doctors always s*** on nurses
I think what everyone who's not part of medical decision making did was misinterpret what she said as some defense of the cop, despite the fact that she preemptively went out of her way to state the cop was in the wrong in X scenario multiple times because she could foresee all of the absolutely pointless b****ing. And multiple people still b****ed over something I quite frankly never saw as defense of a cop.
I'm part of medical decision making
Let me tell you it was really obvious from the video that there wasn't more to the story, at least not enough to even slightly justify the cops behaviorStarted from the bottom now we hereLike if nothing else descalating situations is so important in hospitals
The cop was acting like a madmen probably stressing the f*** out of any patients nearby
I've seen it a thousand times with security guards panicking and getting physical when talking it out is still an option at my work placeStarted from the bottom now we here@Coffeebeanz
Supreme Court and Code of Ethics both said no yet you insisted.
Please love yourself and educate yourself so you can protect your patients properly.El Psy Congroo
3DS FC: 3952-7469-6840EmeralDragon23 posted...@Coffeebeanz
Supreme Court and Code of Ethics both said no yet you insisted.
Please love yourself and educate yourself so you can protect your patients properly.
Please read the whole topic next timePhysician [Internal Medicine]the cop got provided with paid vacation for his job well done.I only think about having babys when i dont pull out and honestly thats the greatest feeling. - EskiiMrPeppers posted...Uh, her medical knowledge is on point and you're not really credentialed or knowledgeable enough to say otherwise. Don't hate cuz you ain't
Dude Tommy was flexing there, he's not self-aware to see the irony of his critiquesigtremain07 posted...cooperating with law enforcement like a good civilian is suppose to
lmfaoI hope this ****in' world ****in' burns away
And I'd kill you all if I had my wayNow that I know the context, if a police officer told me to order a lab for him in this manner, I'd tell him hell no.Physician [Internal Medicine]the guy they wanted blood from isnt even a suspect
they#re trying to get dirt to blackmail him if he tries to make a claim against the cops for the injuries as they were in pursuit during the accidentI only think about having babys when i dont pull out and honestly thats the greatest feeling. - EskiiCoffeebeanz posted...daftpunk_mk5 posted...
"Unconcious" is a completely irrelevant details
The actual punchline is that a cop can't order labs and, in a hospital, doesnt have authority over medical professionals.
And you're assuming that the cops bypassed the ER, got to the actual medical area (there's PHI bins everywhere), bypassed all the doctors and demanded a random nurse to draw labs on a patient.
If that's what actually happened, then you have an argument. I suspect the nurse got an order to draw labs from a physician and refused to do so based on misinterpreting the hospital's policy on drawing ethanol levels on patients who are arrested but not being admitted for treatment.
Do we have those details though?Some say that his voice can only be heard by cats, and that he has two sets of knees... all we know is, he's called the Stig.Dathrowed1 posted...MrPeppers posted...
Uh, her medical knowledge is on point and you're not really credentialed or knowledgeable enough to say otherwise. Don't hate cuz you ain't
Dude Tommy was flexing there, he's not self-aware to see the irony of his critique
LOL ok budjust tell them all your base doesn't belong to us because we were getting stoned...they'll understand-Ken156Coffeebeanz posted...Now that I know the context, if a police officer told me to order a lab for him in this manner, I'd tell him hell no.
It took you an awful lot longer than everyone else to figure out the context. Maybe if you didn't spend so much time patting yourself on the back for being a doctor you'd see you have all the info you need right in front of you.just tell them all your base doesn't belong to us because we were getting stoned...they'll understand-Ken156- Boards
- Current Events
- Cops arrest nurse because she refused to draw blood from an unconscious patient
