radical rhino posted...
Holy s*** this karl guy is so obviously part of a MLM company and desperately doesn’t want to admit that he was scammed. Lol!
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DarkRoast posted...
ArchiePeck posted...
It's exploitative, but it's not a "scam" - no-one is getting cheated out of anything. If you are an extremely good and charismatic seller you will be able to make good money. Most people aren't, which is why I agree that seling them the idea is exploitative.
No, even if you sell balls to the wall, you won't make jack.
Untrue. Understand how MLM businesses are different from pyramid schemes. In a legal MLM business, you sell legitimate products that people genuinely want for a fair price. You can make money just by selling the product. You don’t have to recruit others into the business to make money, even though you may be encouraged to do so to earn more money. MLM businesses are not about taking advantage of anybody. Nobody has to lose money in order for you to make money.[2] This article was co-authored by Michael R. Lewis. Michael R. Lewis is a retired corporate executive, entrepreneur, and investment advisor in Texas. He has over 40 years of experience in Business & Finance.
There are 27 references cited in this article, which can be found at the bottom of the page.https://www.wikihow.com/Make-Money-with-MLM
Is This The Krusty Krab? "No This Is Patrick!"
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Common MLM sales pitch:   Why it doesn't work: 
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Bishop9800 posted...
radical rhino posted...
Holy s*** this karl guy is so obviously part of a MLM company and desperately doesn’t want to admit that he was scammed. Lol!
No, I simply have a pet-peeve for people who spread misinformation. No matter what it is. It's a trait, I would love to get rid of.
Is This The Krusty Krab? "No This Is Patrick!"
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karlpilkington4 posted...
In a legal MLM business, you sell legitimate products that people genuinely want for a fair price.
Lmao, no one wants the vast majority of MLM products.
Many Bothans died to bring you this post.
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The entire MLM system is built not on selling the "product", but instead recruiting other people who then buy the "product" from you to sell to people they recruit or else just throw their money away filling their garage with worthless garbage. It is a scam.
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Nitpicking the semantics of what constitutes a scam undermines the point everyone is trying to make. MLMs are nearly all predatory. Vector definitely so.
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Master_Bass posted...
karlpilkington4 posted...
In a legal MLM business, you sell legitimate products that people genuinely want for a fair price.
Lmao, no one wants the vast majority of MLM products.
The product is really just a formality, the actual money comes from having recruits. Multi-level marketing is a legal scam. If there were any other industry with 99% of its employees making $0 or less, that industry would be regulated faster than anything. and the worst part is, the people who defend it the strongest are the ones who get screwed over the hardest. MLM companies deliberately have a cult-like design, filled with motivational seminars and slogans.
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(Topic Creator)2 hours ago#59
ocelot51 posted...
Nitpicking the semantics of what constitutes a scam undermines the point everyone is trying to make. MLMs are nearly all predatory. Vector definitely so.
Yeah this, predatory and misleading recruitment.
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Master_Bass posted...
karlpilkington4 posted...
In a legal MLM business, you sell legitimate products that people genuinely want for a fair price.
Lmao, no one wants the vast majority of MLM products.
This isnt true at all. Even if it was, legitimacy has nothing to do with desire.
Is This The Krusty Krab? "No This Is Patrick!"
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karlpilkington4 posted...
Tyranthraxus posted...
karlpilkington4 posted...
show hidden quote(s)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pyramid_scheme
None of that proved it was a scam.
Nice attempt. Maybe try harder than a copy/paste next time.
I mean I don't really think you fully understand the meaning of the word scam or what vector marketing does. You don't sell knives for vector marketing. You buy knives from them and then sell them on your own and keep the profit. They don't care whether or not you actually do any work because they've already made their money from you. The promises of riches come from your ability to buy into the scam, and then later recruit people to also buy into the scam. The more people you recruit into the scam, the more money you make. While they tell you everyone can do this, the fact is, most people cannot. As in they have no ability to do such a thing because they lack proper business contacts. They deliberately target people of early college ages because of their poor judgement and high level of confidence. They target people that they know will fail because they don't care they already got your money. Thus, at the end of your vector marketing career, you're left with nothing but debt and a bunch of knives that you couldn't sell and you never get any of the s*** they promised you. And you probably pissed off some of your family and friends trying to sell knives to them in the process. This is a scam. The only way you can make money off it is if you scam other people. You cannot make money just by selling knives, and in fact, have to pay to do it. My brother got suckered into it for around 2 years.
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(To karl) You say that but I've interviewed and worked with (not for) MLM companies that recruit idiot students who aren't aware of how actual more legitimate companies are run. They're put in door-to-door sales without calling it door-to-door on a technical level, no leads, no pay or bonus unless they're able to aggressively put people in plans that are hard to get out. You can see in a lot of testimonials that these kinds of companies like doing s*** like not cancelling plans to deceased individuals even after reports of the person's passing to the company or taking advantage of the elderly and convincing them the service is right for them until their family intervenes. These "legitimate" products are also legitimate in a technical sense. They're usually extravagant and overpriced that 99% of the world won't need, but salesmen are basically tasked to convince otherwise They're always just skirting the edges of legality and hiding in plain sight arguing with sophistry and semantics to justify what is basically morally wrong in just about everybody else's eyes. But what does it matter to people like them or you? As long as you think of yourself as right, it's fine regardless of who's affected right?
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karlpilkington4 posted...
Bishop9800 posted...
radical rhino posted...
show hidden quote(s)
No, I simply have a pet-peeve for people who spread misinformation. No matter what it is.
So you must really hate yourself....
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MLM products are often deliberately grotesquely overpriced. A common theory is that the products are made so expensive, that sales people can't actually sell the product and fold quickly. Most of the MLM money comes from the paid seminars and sales starting kits.
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Tyranthraxus posted...
karlpilkington4 posted...
Tyranthraxus posted...
show hidden quote(s)
None of that proved it was a scam.
Nice attempt. Maybe try harder than a copy/paste next time.
I mean I don't really think you fully understand the meaning of the word scam or what vector marketing does.
You don't sell knives for vector marketing. You buy knives from them and then sell them on your own and keep the profit. They don't care whether or not you actually do any work because they've already made their money from you. The promises of riches come from your ability to buy into the scam, and then later recruit people to also buy into the scam. The more people you recruit into the scam, the more money you make. While they tell you everyone can do this, the fact is, most people cannot. As in they have no ability to do such a thing because they lack proper business contacts. They deliberately target people of early college ages because of their poor judgement and high level of confidence. They target people that they know will fail because they don't care they already got your money.
Thus, at the end of your vector marketing career, you're left with nothing but debt and a bunch of knives that you couldn't sell and you never get any of the s*** they promised you. And you probably pissed off some of your family and friends trying to sell knives to them in the process.
This is a scam. The only way you can make money off it is if you scam other people. You cannot make money just by selling knives, and in fact, have to pay to do it.
My brother got suckered into it for around 2 years.
Not to mention, they fail to address the simple fact that we no longer live in a world that has any interest in peer-to-peer marketing. Nobody wants to buy some overpriced knives from a friend, they'll go to Amazon. Multi-level marketing products aren't designed to be sold. In fact, they're designed and priced to be not sold. All the money comes from recruitment videos, seminars, etc.
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Tyranthraxus posted...
karlpilkington4 posted...
Tyranthraxus posted...
show hidden quote(s)
None of that proved it was a scam.
Nice attempt. Maybe try harder than a copy/paste next time.
I mean I don't really think you fully understand the meaning of the word scam or what vector marketing does.
You don't sell knives for vector marketing. You buy knives from them and then sell them on your own and keep the profit. They don't care whether or not you actually do any work because they've already made their money from you. The promises of riches come from your ability to buy into the scam, and then later recruit people to also buy into the scam. The more people you recruit into the scam, the more money you make. While they tell you everyone can do this, the fact is, most people cannot. As in they have no ability to do such a thing because they lack proper business contacts. They deliberately target people of early college ages because of their poor judgement and high level of confidence. They target people that they know will fail because they don't care they already got your money.
Thus, at the end of your vector marketing career, you're left with nothing but debt and a bunch of knives that you couldn't sell and you never get any of the s*** they promised you. And you probably pissed off some of your family and friends trying to sell knives to them in the process.
This is a scam. The only way you can make money off it is if you scam other people. You cannot make money just by selling knives, and in fact, have to pay to do it.
My brother got suckered into it for around 2 years.
Nothing you outlined is a scam, even if you managed to incorrectly insert it multiple times into your post. If you can't sell their products, then of course you wont make money. How the f*** does your inability to sell make it a scam? Please explain that simple point.
Is This The Krusty Krab? "No This Is Patrick!"
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Why the f*** have y'all spent this many posts feeding that guy? How ironic that this happens in a topic about people not realizing they're being fooled.
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DarkRoast posted...
Master_Bass posted...
karlpilkington4 posted...
show hidden quote(s)
Lmao, no one wants the vast majority of MLM products.
The product is really just a formality, the actual money comes from having recruits.
Multi-level marketing is a legal scam. If there were any other industry with 99% of its employees making $0 or less, that industry would be regulated faster than anything.
and the worst part is, the people who defend it the strongest are the ones who get screwed over the hardest. MLM companies deliberately have a cult-like design, filled with motivational seminars and slogans.
You ever hear the FTC or whoever's investigation of MLMs? They basically described it as a pyramid scheme, even used the term pyramidal structure, but refused to call it such.
"All I have is my balls and my word, and I don't break them for anyone!"-Tony Montana
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legendarylemur posted...
(To karl) You say that but I've interviewed and worked with (not for) MLM companies that recruit idiot students who aren't aware of how actual more legitimate companies are run. They're put in door-to-door sales without calling it door-to-door on a technical level, no leads, no pay or bonus unless they're able to aggressively put people in plans that are hard to get out. You can see in a lot of testimonials that these kinds of companies like doing s*** like not cancelling plans to deceased individuals even after reports of the person's passing to the company or taking advantage of the elderly and convincing them the service is right for them until their family intervenes.
These "legitimate" products are also legitimate in a technical sense. They're usually extravagant and overpriced that 99% of the world won't need, but salesmen are basically tasked to convince otherwise
They're always just skirting the edges of legality and hiding in plain sight arguing with sophistry and semantics to justify what is basically morally wrong in just about everybody else's eyes.
But what does it matter to people like them or you? As long as you think of yourself as right, it's fine regardless of who's affected right?
Being "overpriced" can apply to most things. Most jewelry (diamonds) are completely overpriced. Designer clothes? Overpriced. It costs 2 dollars to make jeans ,and they sell "designer" jeans for $300 at the mall. Again, that doesn't make something a "scam". Are some companies more manipulative than others? Sure, but that doesnt make the entire industry a scam.
Is This The Krusty Krab? "No This Is Patrick!"
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karlpilkington4 posted...
Nothing you outlined is a scam, even if you managed to incorrectly insert it multiple times into your post. If you can't sell their products, then of course you wont make money. How the f*** does your inability to sell make it a scam? Please explain that simple point.
I literally just told you. The guy who recruited you is the one who makes the money at your expense. In a normal job if I'm hired for sales and can't sell s***, the company loses money and the time they wasted having me as a salesperson. In Vector, that's like the 2nd best case scenario.
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UnholyMudcrab posted...
Why the f*** have y'all spent this many posts feeding that guy?
How ironic that this happens in a topic about people not realizing they're being fooled.
For real. People in this topic is why mlms are still a thing.
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Tyranthraxus posted...
karlpilkington4 posted...
Nothing you outlined is a scam, even if you managed to incorrectly insert it multiple times into your post. If you can't sell their products, then of course you wont make money. How the f*** does your inability to sell make it a scam? Please explain that simple point.
I literally just told you. The guy who recruited you is the one who makes the money at your expense.
In a normal job if I'm hired for sales and can't sell s***, the company loses money and the time they wasted having me as a salesperson. In Vector, that's like the 2nd best case scenario.
#1. If I'm recruited, and I sell, I get paid #2 At a commission sales job, if you don't make money, the company doesn't get paid either. Most MLM's simply requires you to pay their membership fee to join and they send you the product as part of it. This is all upfront before signing up. None of it is a scam. So, no you haven't "told" me anything.
Is This The Krusty Krab? "No This Is Patrick!"
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and you're still trying to convince people you're not proudclad
But to you who are listening I say: Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, bless those who curse you, pray for those who mistreat you.
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Balrog0 posted...
and you're still trying to convince people you're not proudclad
There's a difference between "convincing" people, and simply stating that I'm not.
Is This The Krusty Krab? "No This Is Patrick!"
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Agreed, I didn't say you were successful at convincing
But to you who are listening I say: Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, bless those who curse you, pray for those who mistreat you.
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Proudclad is definitely a MLM guy.
Currently playing: Psychonauts, BioShock
In limbo: Strider, Jet Force Gemini
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I don't understand why you can be sued for calling MLM companies pyramids schemes when that's what they are. Herbalife? Kirby Vacuum cleaners? Get serious
Sarah Logan got screwed at Wrestlemania 35. I'm rooting for her <3
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I wasn't aware Proudclad was an MLM shill, but I'm also not surprised in the least.
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BLAKUboy posted...
I wasn't aware Proudclad was an MLM shill, but I'm also not surprised in the least.
it's not about MLM, it's about his weird bootstrapping worldview that comes through in a very proudcladian way
But to you who are listening I say: Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, bless those who curse you, pray for those who mistreat you.
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(Topic Creator)1 hour ago#80
I didn't know that was proudclad lmao
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Balrog0 posted...
and you're still trying to convince people you're not proudclad
So karl is proudclad. Guess that explains why he picks things that people largely agree are bad to defend.
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Balrog0 posted...
BLAKUboy posted...
I wasn't aware Proudclad was an MLM shill, but I'm also not surprised in the least.
it's not about MLM, it's about his weird bootstrapping worldview that comes through in a very proudcladian way
There's nothing weird about thinking people should work for their success, and not get handouts for doing nothing of real value. To think this type of view point is specific to one person is ridiculous.
Is This The Krusty Krab? "No This Is Patrick!"
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MC_BatCommander posted...
I didn't know that was proudclad lmao
It is an incredibly recent revelation. Like literally just today. In fairness, the account is usually in Purg for transphobic stuff.
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I was desperate for work and got suckered into driving an hour for a “job interview” that ended up being a group presentation for a life insurance sales pyramid scheme. I was one of like three people that hadn’t left by the end, so the guy tried to get $200 out of me to get me started.
Within a couple weeks, I moved ~3,000 miles across the country to job hunt there instead.
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BLAKUboy posted...
MC_BatCommander posted...
I didn't know that was proudclad lmao
It is an incredibly recent made up revelation.
Is This The Krusty Krab? "No This Is Patrick!"
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(Topic Creator)1 hour ago#86
BLAKUboy posted...
MC_BatCommander posted...
I didn't know that was proudclad lmao
It is an incredibly recent revelation. Like literally just today.
In fairness, the account is usually in Purg for transphobic stuff.
I see 🤔
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karlpilkington4 posted...
Balrog0 posted...
BLAKUboy posted...
show hidden quote(s)
it's not about MLM, it's about his weird bootstrapping worldview that comes through in a very proudcladian way
There's nothing weird about thinking people should work for their success, and not get handouts for doing nothing of real value. To think this type of view point is specific to one person is ridiculous.
On the contrary, I think people should be paid for their work. But as a doctor I just get handouts so
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BLAKUboy posted...
MC_BatCommander posted...
I didn't know that was proudclad lmao
It is an incredibly recent revelation. Like literally just today.
In fairness, the account is usually in Purg for transphobic stuff.
yeah, proudclad never strike me as transphobic, but his last account was too focus on calling everyone a communist that he never laid any opinions about that kind of stuff.
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DarkRoast posted...
karlpilkington4 posted...
Balrog0 posted...
show hidden quote(s)
There's nothing weird about thinking people should work for their success, and not get handouts for doing nothing of real value. To think this type of view point is specific to one person is ridiculous.
On the contrary, I think people should be paid for their work.
But as a doctor I just get handouts so
What type of handouts?
Is This The Krusty Krab? "No This Is Patrick!"
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karlpilkington4 posted...
Tyranthraxus posted...
karlpilkington4 posted...
show hidden quote(s)
I literally just told you. The guy who recruited you is the one who makes the money at your expense.
In a normal job if I'm hired for sales and can't sell s***, the company loses money and the time they wasted having me as a salesperson. In Vector, that's like the 2nd best case scenario.
#1. If I'm recruited, and I sell, I get paid
#2 At a commission sales job, if you don't make money, the company doesn't get paid either. Most MLM's simply requires you to pay their membership fee to join and they send you the product as part of it. This is all upfront before signing up. None of it is a scam.
So, no you haven't "told" me anything.
#1 I just told you that no, you don't get paid. You have to buy their kits and seminars which puts you into the red, then sell it just to break even and maybe end up with a little extra pocket change. My brother worked all day and after his expenses he made an average of $2 an hour, except less than that really since he was never reimbursed for any of the gas he spent driving to customers locations. The only person who gets paid is the person you buy the kits / seminars from. #2 Vector Marketing is not a commission based job. You have to buy the material to sell, and then you have to sell it. You don't get a commission. You get exactly what you sell. They call it commission but the fact is you are just a reseller, and a terrible one. They are selling you products for retail prices that you have to turn around and sell at a markup. At the end of the day Vector Marketing promises that you can become rich but you can't actually get that way unless you scam other people into the s*** that you had to do starting out.
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Tmaster148 posted...
BLAKUboy posted...
MC_BatCommander posted...
show hidden quote(s)
It is an incredibly recent revelation. Like literally just today.
In fairness, the account is usually in Purg for transphobic stuff.
yeah, proudclad never strike me as transphobic, but his last account was too focus on calling everyone a communist that he never laid any opinions about that kind of stuff.
before that it was being atheist and before that it was being super christian the fact that the emphasis keeps changing and isnt principled at all but the oddly intense love for anything that can be construed as hard work and dedication or w/e even if it's obviously bad has been consistent through all of these phases
But to you who are listening I say: Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, bless those who curse you, pray for those who mistreat you.
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Tyranthraxus posted...
karlpilkington4 posted...
Tyranthraxus posted...
show hidden quote(s)
#1. If I'm recruited, and I sell, I get paid
#2 At a commission sales job, if you don't make money, the company doesn't get paid either. Most MLM's simply requires you to pay their membership fee to join and they send you the product as part of it. This is all upfront before signing up. None of it is a scam.
So, no you haven't "told" me anything.
#1 I just told you that no, you don't get paid. You have to buy their kits and seminars which puts you into the red, then sell it just to break even and maybe end up with a little extra pocket change. My brother worked all day and after his expenses he made an average of $2 an hour, except less than that really since he was never reimbursed for any of the gas he spent driving to customers locations. The only person who gets paid is the person you buy the kits / seminars from.
#2 Vector Marketing is not a commission based job. You have to buy the material to sell, and then you have to sell it. You don't get a commission. You get exactly what you sell. They call it commission but the fact is you are just a reseller, and a terrible one. They are selling you products for retail prices that you have to turn around and sell at a markup.
At the end of the day Vector Marketing promises that you can become rich but you can't actually get that way unless you scam other people into the s*** that you had to do starting out.
Again nothing you said makes it a scam, you just keep talking in circles. "You have to buy a membership so you're in the red" Do they still pay you when you sell their products? "Yes" Oh...so it's not a scam And the majority of MLM companies give you a special link to send your customers when they buy online. You don't need to buy the product to sell it. That's blatantly false as a MLM standard.
Is This The Krusty Krab? "No This Is Patrick!"
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radical rhino posted...
Holy s*** this karl guy is so obviously part of a MLM company and desperately doesn’t want to admit that he was scammed. Lol!
its just his gimmick basically any topic where the prevailing opinion is siding in one direction, he advocates the opposite. hes a contrarian troll; its weird.
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spudger posted...
radical rhino posted...
Holy s*** this karl guy is so obviously part of a MLM company and desperately doesn’t want to admit that he was scammed. Lol!
its just his gimmick
basically any topic where the prevailing opinion is siding in one direction, he advocates the opposite.
hes a contrarian troll; its weird.
Also apparently sells knives
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spudger posted...
radical rhino posted...
Holy s*** this karl guy is so obviously part of a MLM company and desperately doesn’t want to admit that he was scammed. Lol!
its just his gimmick
basically any topic where the prevailing opinion is siding in one direction, he advocates the opposite.
hes a contrarian troll; its weird.
He's pretty dedicated. Even I have my limits.
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So Karl is Proudcast?
Now the bulls*** makes sense
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Bishop9800 posted...
So Karl is Proudcast?
Now the bulls*** makes sense
Find religion, conservatism and your next set of deluxe knives all in one convenient package.
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Bishop9800 posted...
So Karl is Proudcast?
Now the bulls*** makes sense
No, I'm not. Feel free to believe random people who certainly don't know, though.
Is This The Krusty Krab? "No This Is Patrick!"
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spudger posted...
radical rhino posted...
Holy s*** this karl guy is so obviously part of a MLM company and desperately doesn’t want to admit that he was scammed. Lol!
its just his gimmick
basically any topic where the prevailing opinion is siding in one direction, he advocates the opposite.
hes a contrarian troll; its weird.
I only enter discussions on things that I know to be right (or strongly believe to be). Being contrarian for contrarians sake is not what I do.
Is This The Krusty Krab? "No This Is Patrick!"
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karlpilkington4 posted...
I only enter discussions on things that I know to be right (or strongly believe to be)
I have never seen you be right about anything, but at least you cover your tracks there.
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"All I have is my balls and my word, and I don't break them for anyone!"-Tony Montanalegendarylemur posted...
