s0nicfan posted...
And when democrats change the laws of big government do they expect local government to follow them? Should southern states arbitrarily ignore trans rights, or gay rights, or abortion rights, simply because they don't personally agree with them?
Democrats aren't really in favor of small government doing whatever the f*** they want for the most part, so I'm not sure what you're trying to get at here. We think it's nice that Colorado legalized weed, but we actually want it to be federally legal. s0nicfan posted...
The law is the law, and if you don't like the law you make new laws or remove old ones. You don't just arbitrarily skip the ones you don't like, and that applies to all parties.
And democrats have been arguing for immigration reform. We're not ignoring them. We're trying to change federal government.
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I don't think people understand how sanctuary cities work... They're designed to protect the citizens. If you're an illegal immigrant and you witness a crime... Do you call the cops and risk deportation? Or do you look the other way and let it happen? If you're running a city and you find an increasing number of your crimes is going unreported, what's more important to you? The safety of your citizens or deportation laws?
We are living in a world today where lemonade is made from artificial flavors and furniture polish is made from real lemons.
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s0nicfan posted...
And when democrats change the laws of big government do they expect local government to follow them? Should southern states arbitrarily ignore trans rights, or gay rights, or abortion rights, simply because they don't personally agree with them?
I mean, southern states are constantly passing laws that limit and restrict abortion rights. The difference is that courts typically strike those down, while the sanctuary city issue is less clear constitutionally. Oh, also, abortion restrictions that are de facto rather than de jure are fine (e.g., excessive regulations regarding the provision of abortions) which is pretty much how localities handle sanctuary policies.
He would make his mark, if not on this tree, then on that wall; if not with teeth and claws, then with penknife and razor.
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OrtegaTron posted...
People that are opposed to this don't realize they are taking an ideological stance similar to the confederacy, states rights over federal law, which was the basis of the rebellion that led to the civil war.
Actually the ideological stance of the confederacy was the ownership of human beings; not giving sanctuary to immigrants.
No time to freeze undercovers ease up in Grand Prix,
and seize packages and pocket the currency - GZA
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Gojak_v3 posted...
lol what a s*** post.
How about the United States is a nation of laws. Yeah doesn't really fit yer narrative does it.
I mean these are federal laws being willfully ignored. So I guess they should just throw their hands in the air and simply go oh well according to you.
http://medicalmarijuana.procon.org/files/1-medical-marijuana-images/29-medical-marijuana-states-map.pnglots of work to do enforcing those federal laws
He would make his mark, if not on this tree, then on that wall; if not with teeth and claws, then with penknife and razor.
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(Topic Creator)1 day ago#57
legendary_zell posted...
First, undocumented presence isn't a crime. Even illegal entry is a misdemeanor. Second, nothing these leaders are doing fits any reasonable definition of the felony of human smuggling. So you guys are fine with elected officials being jailed for crimes they did not commit because of your political opposition to them?
No, it's a crime. http://www.alllaw.com/articles/nolo/us-immigration/crime-enter-illegally.html
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Balrog0 posted...
Gojak_v3 posted...
lol what a s*** post.
How about the United States is a nation of laws. Yeah doesn't really fit yer narrative does it.
I mean these are federal laws being willfully ignored. So I guess they should just throw their hands in the air and simply go oh well according to you.
http://medicalmarijuana.procon.org/files/1-medical-marijuana-images/29-medical-marijuana-states-map.png
lots of work to do enforcing those federal laws
So ignore all federal laws then gotcha. Tell me, what do you think is a more pressing issue: Marijuana or immigration?
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CE is so f***ing stupid it hurts
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The Deadpool posted...
They're designed to protect the citizens. If you're an illegal immigrant and you witness a crime... Do you call the cops and risk deportation? Or do you look the other way and let it happen?
How about if an illegal immigrant commits a crime? Do these sanctuary cities call up ICE and deport them? No, of-f***ing-course they don't. Hence the problem.
The person who writes for fools is always sure of a large audience.
Friend Code: 2723-9696-7248
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Gojak_v3 posted...
So ignore all federal laws then gotcha.
haha, jesus christ conservatives really do have no principles at all. Gojak_v3 posted...
Tell me, what do you think is a more pressing issue: Marijuana or immigration?
what do you mean? we need more of both.
He would make his mark, if not on this tree, then on that wall; if not with teeth and claws, then with penknife and razor.
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s0nicfan posted...
Kind of a fair, next. You can disagree with federal laws, but as a government official actively declaring that your city is just sort of arbitrarily going to ignore specific ones is just bad practice.
Obama did it so he set a precedence.
We make men without chests and expect from them virtue and enterprise. We laugh at honor and are shocked to find traitors in our midst. - C.S. Lewis
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Balrog0 posted...
Gojak_v3 posted...
So ignore all federal laws then gotcha.
haha, jesus christ conservatives really do have no principles at all.
Gojak_v3 posted...
Tell me, what do you think is a more pressing issue: Marijuana or immigration?
what do you mean? we need more of both.
This is what really hurts you. You go all s*** posting at time when you've demonstrated better. If you can't defend sanctuary cities then just ignore the topic.
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Gojak_v3 posted...
This is what really hurts you. You go all s*** posting at time when you've demonstrated better.
I'm not s***posting, you are. Literally nothing I posted can be interpreted as "so ignore all federal laws," so if that's how we're going to proceed why on earth shouldn't I "s*** post"? Gojak_v3 posted...
If you can't defend sanctuary cities than just ignore the topic.
But no one has formulated a response that attacks sanctuary cities ITT other than stupid strawman posts like yours that couch it in terms of being law-abiding. The logical conclusion of your own argument -- which is that we should follow all federal laws to the letter, because none of you have presented anything substantive above and beyond us being a nation of laws -- is uncomfortable to you and your side, so you're selectively misconstruing what the other side is saying.
He would make his mark, if not on this tree, then on that wall; if not with teeth and claws, then with penknife and razor.
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Wtf is balrog going no on about now?
We make men without chests and expect from them virtue and enterprise. We laugh at honor and are shocked to find traitors in our midst. - C.S. Lewis
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Sephiroth1288 posted...
How about if an illegal immigrant commits a crime? Do these sanctuary cities call up ICE and deport them?
They arrest them for the crime.
We are living in a world today where lemonade is made from artificial flavors and furniture polish is made from real lemons.
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HypnoCoosh posted...
Wtf is balrog going no on about now?
just opposing unfunded mandates from the federal government
He would make his mark, if not on this tree, then on that wall; if not with teeth and claws, then with penknife and razor.
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Balrog0 posted...
But no one has formulated a response that attacks sanctuary cities ITT
Sanctuary cities refuse to deport illegal immigrant murderers. http://www.cbsnews.com/news/san-francisco-murder-prompts-reviews-of-sanctuary-cities/
San Francisco's sanctuary ordinance largely prohibits city personnel from helping enforce immigration laws.
"It was never contemplated that our sanctuary city would give protection to serious repeat felony offenders," Mayor Ed Lee says.
San Francisco Sheriff Ross Mirkarimi insists he had no choice but to free Sanchez without alerting Immigration and Customs Enforcement, or ICE.
There's an attack on sanctuary cities. Now go ahead and defend this, @Balrog0
The person who writes for fools is always sure of a large audience.
Friend Code: 2723-9696-7248
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Sephiroth1288 posted...
The Deadpool posted...
They're designed to protect the citizens. If you're an illegal immigrant and you witness a crime... Do you call the cops and risk deportation? Or do you look the other way and let it happen?
How about if an illegal immigrant commits a crime? Do these sanctuary cities call up ICE and deport them?
No, of-f***ing-course they don't. Hence the problem.
Yes they do. Sanctuary City doesn't mean "we don't deport you" it means "we don't deport you just because you called the police to report a different crime."
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ChromaticAngel posted...
Sanctuary City doesn't mean "we don't deport you" it means "we don't deport you just because you called the police to report a different crime."
WrongSephiroth1288 posted...
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/san-francisco-murder-prompts-reviews-of-sanctuary-cities/
The person who writes for fools is always sure of a large audience.
Friend Code: 2723-9696-7248
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Sephiroth1288 posted...
Balrog0 posted...
But no one has formulated a response that attacks sanctuary cities ITT
Sanctuary cities refuse to deport illegal immigrant murderers.
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/san-francisco-murder-prompts-reviews-of-sanctuary-cities/
San Francisco's sanctuary ordinance largely prohibits city personnel from helping enforce immigration laws.
"It was never contemplated that our sanctuary city would give protection to serious repeat felony offenders," Mayor Ed Lee says.
San Francisco Sheriff Ross Mirkarimi insists he had no choice but to free Sanchez without alerting Immigration and Customs Enforcement, or ICE.
There's an attack on sanctuary cities. Now go ahead and defend this, @Balrog0
http://www.latimes.com/local/california/la-me-immigration-sanctuary-kathryn-steinle-20150723-htmlstory.htmlSanchez was in federal prison for re-entering the country after his fifth deportation. But on March 26, as the date neared for him to be released into ICE custody, prison officials in Victorville shipped him north to the San Francisco Sheriff's Department on an outstanding drug-related warrant despite an immigration detainer. The San Francisco district attorney's office declined to prosecute what authorities said was a decade-old marijuana possession case, and Sanchez was released April 15.This event was tragic, but locating the issue with sanctuary city policies is misleading at best. The federal government was not only complicit, but is obviously incompetent. Are we really arguing that we should put a strain on local law enforcement and prison/jail budgets just so ICE can let someone re-enter the country for a 6th time?
He would make his mark, if not on this tree, then on that wall; if not with teeth and claws, then with penknife and razor.
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Balrog0 posted...
HypnoCoosh posted...
Wtf is balrog going no on about now?
just opposing unfunded mandates from the federal government
I oppose I funded illegal border jumpers who drain on our economy and infrastructure. Guess we have something in common.
We make men without chests and expect from them virtue and enterprise. We laugh at honor and are shocked to find traitors in our midst. - C.S. Lewis
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Sephiroth1288 posted...
ChromaticAngel posted...
Sanctuary City doesn't mean "we don't deport you" it means "we don't deport you just because you called the police to report a different crime."
Wrong
Sephiroth1288 posted...
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/san-francisco-murder-prompts-reviews-of-sanctuary-cities/
Did you read the article? 1. They're forced to cooperate if the ICE has a warrant 2. an ICE can get a warrant with a phone call 3. The murderer was deported 5 times previously All outlined in the article you posted. Any other proposals?
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The Deadpool posted...
They're designed to protect the citizens. If you're an illegal immigrant and you witness a crime... Do you call the cops and risk deportation? Or do you look the other way and let it happen?
Good point. Thanks for bringing that up.
"Opinions should be a result of a thought, not a substitute for it."
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Balrog0 posted...
This event was tragic, but locating the issue with sanctuary city policies is misleading at best. The federal government was not only complicit, but is obviously incompetent. Are we really arguing that we should put a strain on local law enforcement and prison/jail budgets just so ICE can let someone re-enter the country for a 6th time?
Did we read the same article? I even posted the relevant part for you. If SF had deported this scumbag it's unlikely he'd have had an opportunity to murder that girl.
San Francisco Sheriff Ross Mirkarimi insists he had no choice but to free Sanchez without alerting Immigration and Customs Enforcement, or ICE.
The person who writes for fools is always sure of a large audience.
Friend Code: 2723-9696-7248
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Sephiroth1288 posted...
Did we read the same article? I even posted the relevant part for you
yeah, I just read more than you on top of that it lets me get a better understanding of the situation than you have, no big deal
He would make his mark, if not on this tree, then on that wall; if not with teeth and claws, then with penknife and razor.
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ChromaticAngel posted...
1. They're forced to cooperate if the ICE has a warrant
Right, and they're not to alert ICE that they have an illegal in custody, meaning ICE has no way to procure a warrant for that person. ChromaticAngel posted...
3. The murderer was deported 5 times previously
So I guess if someone has been deported enough times before, they should just get to stay! Is that what you're saying? If you get deported too many times we should just stop enforcing the law?
The person who writes for fools is always sure of a large audience.
Friend Code: 2723-9696-7248
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Sephiroth1288 posted...
Right, and they're not to alert ICE that they have an illegal in custody, meaning ICE has no way to procure a warrant for that person.
If ICE can't procure a warrant for someone that was deported 5 times then every employee in that organization needs to be fired and replaced. Sephiroth1288 posted...
So I guess if someone has been deported enough times before, they should just get to stay! Is that what you're saying? If you get deported too many times we should just stop enforcing the law?
No. What I'm trying to say is he was deported so your argument that you can't get deported from a sanctuary city is totally f***ing bogus.
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Balrog0 posted...
yeah, I just read more than you on top of that
All you did was quote a part that shows SF refused to prosecute AND deport a guy who would go on to murder a girl. I'd like to know why you think this is an argument in favor of sanctuary cities.
The person who writes for fools is always sure of a large audience.
Friend Code: 2723-9696-7248
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ChromaticAngel posted...
If ICE can't procure a warrant for someone that was deported 5 times then every employee in that organization needs to be fired and replaced.
LOl yeah, Sanchez clearly would have alerted the Feds that he has re-entered the country again so they would know to procure a warrant for him as soon as he got arrested by the police department which doesn't alert the Feds when an illegal is arrested. Brilliant logic there, sport. ChromaticAngel posted...
No. What I'm trying to say is he was deported so your argument that you can't get deported from a sanctuary city is totally f***ing bogus.
1. He wasn't necessarily in a sanctuary city when he got deported 2. SF still refused to deport a repeat criminal and a murderer Your real argument seems to be he had too easy of a time coming back into the country. Perhaps he would be less inclined to come back if he knew that there were no cities willing to protect illegals?
The person who writes for fools is always sure of a large audience.
Friend Code: 2723-9696-7248
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Trump cultists calling anyone else treasonous is at the same laughable and pathetic
Cowboy Dan's a major player in the cowboy scene
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Sephiroth1288 posted...
LOl yeah, Sanchez clearly would have alerted the Feds that he has re-entered the country again so they would know to procure a warrant for him as soon as he got arrested by the police department which doesn't alert the Feds when an illegal is arrested.
Brilliant logic there, sport.
Sanchez doesn't need to alert anyone. He was arrested and it's documented as so. The ICE has access to this knowledge, they could use it to procure a warrant. The fact that they didn't is a failure on the ICE, not the SFPD. Sephiroth1288 posted...
1. He wasn't necessarily in a sanctuary city when he got deported
2. SF still refused to deport a repeat criminal and a murderer
Your real argument seems to be he had too easy of a time coming back into the country. Perhaps he would be less inclined to come back if he knew that there were no cities willing to protect illegals?
The argument is as you say, but it is also that it would have happened with or without the sanctuary city. The current laws against immigration did absolutely nothing to stop a girl from being murdered. What happens to the murderer after the fact is irrelevant as the girl can't be brought back to life. The justice system failed to deal with a repeat felon that was deported 5 times. failing to deal with it a 6th time doesn't change anything. Going all crazy regarding banning immigration is equivalent to banning all guns because one f***ing moron shot up a school.
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Also, good luck with that.
Cowboy Dan's a major player in the cowboy scene
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ChromaticAngel posted...
Sanchez doesn't need to alert anyone. He was arrested and it's documented as so. The ICE has access to this knowledge, they could use it to procure a warrant. The fact that they didn't is a failure on the ICE, not the SFPD.
Ok, now you're just talking out your ass. Sanctuary cities like SF do not alert ICE when they have an illegal in prison. That's why they're a problem, and that's why that girl is now dead. ChromaticAngel posted...
The argument is as you say, but it is also that it would have happened with or without the sanctuary city.
No, I'm rather confident that it would be much less likely he could murder anyone in the US if he were simply deported. And of course I also support bolstering border security. But there's no reason we can't go after cities that try to subvert the law as well.
The person who writes for fools is always sure of a large audience.
Friend Code: 2723-9696-7248
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(Topic Creator)1 day ago#85
NadYobWoc posted...
Trump cultists calling anyone else treasonous is at the same laughable and pathetic
Why? We uphold the constitution; you want to destroy it. Who's treasonous?
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Oh? How does this propose to charge towns like mine, where there is no town leader, and everything is done by town council voting by popular vote? We became a Sanctuary Town months ago. We don't have town leaders, just organizers.
ZSB: We look so much better in a dress than you.
I wouldn't mind being alone if I could stand my own company.
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--kresnik-- posted...
NadYobWoc posted...
Trump cultists calling anyone else treasonous is at the same laughable and pathetic
Why? We uphold the constitution; you want to destroy it. Who's treasonous?
The people who wrote the constitution did so under the pretense that people would change it, not uphold it.
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Sylph posted...
Oh? How does this propose to charge towns like mine, where there is no town leader, and everything is done by town council voting by popular vote? We became a Sanctuary Town months ago. We don't have town leaders, just organizers.
You goin to jail, bro.
The person who writes for fools is always sure of a large audience.
Friend Code: 2723-9696-7248
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--kresnik-- posted...
NadYobWoc posted...
Trump cultists calling anyone else treasonous is at the same laughable and pathetic
Why? We uphold the constitution; you want to destroy it. Who's treasonous?
The Constitution is a living document Also Trump has been violating it left and right like he violated those women he grabbed without their consent
El Psy Congroo
3DS FC: 3952-7469-6840
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EmeralDragon23 posted...
The Constitution is a living document
That's right. That's why we have an amendment process. Saying "it's a living document" doesn't mean to ignore the parts of it that you personally don't like.
The person who writes for fools is always sure of a large audience.
Friend Code: 2723-9696-7248
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(Topic Creator)23 hours ago#91
ChromaticAngel posted...
--kresnik-- posted...
NadYobWoc posted...
Trump cultists calling anyone else treasonous is at the same laughable and pathetic
Why? We uphold the constitution; you want to destroy it. Who's treasonous?
The people who wrote the constitution did so under the pretense that people would change it, not uphold it.
XD
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(Topic Creator)23 hours ago#92
EmeralDragon23 posted...
--kresnik-- posted...
NadYobWoc posted...
Trump cultists calling anyone else treasonous is at the same laughable and pathetic
Why? We uphold the constitution; you want to destroy it. Who's treasonous?
The Constitution is a living document
Also Trump has been violating it left and right like he violated those women he grabbed without their consent
Bill Clinton and Anthony wiener say hi
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--kresnik-- posted...
EmeralDragon23 posted...
--kresnik-- posted...
NadYobWoc posted...
Trump cultists calling anyone else treasonous is at the same laughable and pathetic
Why? We uphold the constitution; you want to destroy it. Who's treasonous?
The Constitution is a living document
Also Trump has been violating it left and right like he violated those women he grabbed without their consent
Bill Clinton and Anthony wiener say hi
You added two more pieces of s*** to the list, congrats. What was that supposed to prove?
El Psy Congroo
3DS FC: 3952-7469-6840
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(Topic Creator)23 hours ago#94
Because trump has done nothing to violate the constitution. He is providing for the common defense and ensuring the general welfare of the people. The people I listed are violators of the constitution.
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--kresnik-- posted...
Because trump has done nothing to violate the constitution. He is providing for the common defense and ensuring the general welfare of the people.
The people I listed are violators of the constitution.
Thomas Jefferson and the 3 presidents that followed him just had another heart attack in the afterlife after reading this
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(Topic Creator)23 hours ago#96
ChromaticAngel posted...
--kresnik-- posted...
Because trump has done nothing to violate the constitution. He is providing for the common defense and ensuring the general welfare of the people.
The people I listed are violators of the constitution.
Thomas Jefferson and the 3 presidents that followed him just had another heart attack in the afterlife after reading this
Yeah, I guess they're still a bit shocked than nearly half the country wanted to follow in venezuelas footsteps and go with socialism.
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Etherealfare posted...
OrtegaTron posted...
People that are opposed to this don't realize they are taking an ideological stance similar to the confederacy, states rights over federal law, which was the basis of the rebellion that led to the civil war.
Actually the ideological stance of the confederacy was the ownership of human beings; not giving sanctuary to immigrants.
Another poor reader. This topic is full of them haha.
The red flag is false hope
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Sephiroth1288 posted...
Sanctuary cities refuse to deport illegal immigrant murderers.
Of course they do. No stare has the power to deport people, only the Federal government does. If a state is deporting people, it is violating the law.
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IMO ICE needs to big a few community centers in sanctuary cities, raid them without warning, and ship a few thousands illegals back. Just to show the mayors who's in charge and send the message to the illegals that they arent as safe as they think.
Some say that his voice can only be heard by cats, and that he has two sets of knees... all we know is, he's called the Stig.
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(Topic Creator)21 hours ago#100
daftpunk_mk5 posted...
IMO ICE needs to big a few community centers in sanctuary cities, raid them without warning, and ship a few thousands illegals back. Just to show the mayors who's in charge and send the message to the illegals that they arent as safe as they think.
That's a good plan. I think they're up to it, just letting the "sanctuary cities" grow.
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The person who writes for fools is always sure of a large audience.
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