- Boards
- Pro Wrestling: WWE
- Big Jim Cornette and '...dive' Rip Rogers say Strong Style is stupid.
 They make some good points but I think people like Nakamura and NJPW so much that they will hate them for saying it They used to pretend to hurt each other and the crowd thought it was real, now they really hurt each other and the crowd thinks it's fake. Where's the logic in that??? ~ Dirty Dutch Mantel
When the going gets tough, the tough go have a little cry in the corner.
"Your mustache is crooked" ~ R.I.P Randy Savage.
(edited 3 days ago)
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Tanahashi hates strong style too actually.
Not Changing This Until Nakamura Becomes WWE Champ 4/5/2016
Sevendown: http://www.writerscafe.org/writing/Blood_Pump/1818846/ |
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Grumpy old men yelling at clouds again...
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Amazak posted...
Grumpy old men yelling at clouds again... Are they wrong?
When the going gets tough, the tough go have a little cry in the corner.
"Your mustache is crooked" ~ R.I.P Randy Savage. |
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Antonio Inoki dismissed the love-boners that people had for strong-style as well, even though he pretty much innovated it.
Welcome to LOLFAQs, where anyone who disagrees with you is a troll.
"Hahahahahahaha" - Mara Aramov |
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oh damn those people that are balls deep in the nakamura band wagon will be breaking monitors soon.
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Maze_ posted...
Amazak posted...Grumpy old men yelling at clouds again... Yes. It's not 1974 anymore. |
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Im not that big of a strong style fan but cornette hates almost everything even remotely recent. His ideal idea of wrestling would not work today.
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guerrillakidney posted...
Im not that big of a strong style fan but cornette hates almost everything even remotely recent. His ideal idea of wrestling would not work today. This is actually a myth but people just don't listen to him when he's being nice because his rants are so entertaining. He's sucking Triple H's balls ever since Triple H sent him a paycheck. He's a huge fan of the wellness policy. He thinks the Revival are the best tag team in the world and the best in decades. He also praised American Alpha and DIY a lot He loved both the Dunn/Bate matches He's a big fan of Mauro's commentary. He just doesn't like the Young Bucks, Riochet "we're going to do 500 kicks and 20 flips every match and not sell any of them and then win with a roll-up" style. When Hulk Hogan doing one leg-drop and Ric Flair pretending to someone with a fistfull of quarters got 40 times the reaction in front of a 12 times a large a crowd as that ever did it.
When the going gets tough, the tough go have a little cry in the corner.
"Your mustache is crooked" ~ R.I.P Randy Savage. |
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Amazak posted...
Maze_ posted...Amazak posted...Grumpy old men yelling at clouds again... So its okay that Shibata doesn't have a career anymore.
Not Changing This Until Nakamura Becomes WWE Champ 4/5/2016
Sevendown: http://www.writerscafe.org/writing/Blood_Pump/1818846/ |
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I hate listening to those dudes. Wrestling has too many old heads saying how it should be when they dont accept the fact that times change.
The night brims with defiled scum,and is permeated by their rotten stench.
Just think. Now you're all set to hunt and kill to your heart's content. |
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I4NRulez posted...
I hate listening to those dudes. Wrestling has too many old heads saying how it should be when they dont accept the fact that times change. I'd be more on your side if wrestling was much more successful now. But the reality is exept for the top 20 guys in WWE, the industry is worse now. "Times change." isn't an excuse when they're changing for the worse and it isn't an answer to their complaints. If next week Alexa Bliss beat Roman Reigns and Lesnar at the same time and ended Triple H's career while marrying Asuka and setting fire to WWE's Headquarters, someone going "Time's change ur old fart" wouldn't really be a response to your reaction. Not to mention with the exception of TNA still being in businsesses, everything Cornette has predicted over the past 15 years has come to pass.
When the going gets tough, the tough go have a little cry in the corner.
"Your mustache is crooked" ~ R.I.P Randy Savage. |
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Maze_ posted...
guerrillakidney posted...Im not that big of a strong style fan but cornette hates almost everything even remotely recent. His ideal idea of wrestling would not work today. Its not a myth at all. I listen to him every week and its def not a myth. |
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Well it is stupid. Why beat yourself up for real for a fake fight? Just do a real fight.
The art of wrestling was making it seem like you hurt your opponent without actually hurting him.
The sinister minister
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Why are they so mad?
And no they didn't have a point.
https://i.imgur.com/EBrzoSh.mp4 http://i.imgur.com/5rOWEUf.jpg http://imgur.com/Fs0Mw6e.gif
Lord M| Boondoctor | NGG Original | Hawks | Falcons | Braves |
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HatchetandShank posted...
Why are they so mad? Corny's not Rip is mad because 1,000 people ate his ass over him saying that nearly killing yourself for no money in front of small crowds is bad and pointless
When the going gets tough, the tough go have a little cry in the corner.
"Your mustache is crooked" ~ R.I.P Randy Savage. |
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BloodPump posted...
Tanahashi hates strong style too actually. I want to hug The Ace |
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Eh, I agree with pretty much everything they said. I enjoy Nakamura's work and can appreciate any style that makes pro wrestling look more realistic, but at the same time the idea is supposed to be to pretend like you're hurting your opponent. Not to hurt them for real.
If you can't put on a convincing wrestling match without actually hurting yourself or your opponent then you need to take a step back and rethink how you're doing things.
Cancel one book and two more shall take it's place. Hail Marvel. - Reaper115
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Maze_ posted...
I4NRulez posted...I hate listening to those dudes. Wrestling has too many old heads saying how it should be when they dont accept the fact that times change. WWE isnt as successful but idk why you keep saying indy wrestling isnt. Progress, PWG, NJPW (if you count them as indy) are all successful for what they are currently
The night brims with defiled scum,and is permeated by their rotten stench.
Just think. Now you're all set to hunt and kill to your heart's content. |
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Because it simply isn't?
"Hey look, a small handful of companies are successful for what they are, therefore the industry is doing better" is bonkers logic and you know it. We're seeing a spirial for the entire industry, only one major company in the world and that by its own statements doesn't do wrestling it does "sports entertainment", wrestlers dying round the clock before they are 50 and indies that have shows in fields because arenas don't accept them and pay their "wrestlers" in pain pills and beer. How many wrestlers starting today do you think can have a 20-40 year active career? And of those few, how many could do so outside of WWE? Remember a lot of indy "wrestlers" have day jobs, because they can't sustain themselves on wrestling. As there is no money. Even successful indy promotions are doing tiny shows with big specials or sometimes no spot shows at all. In the past weekly 2,000-17,000 crowd shows around territories year round was common. Right now even WWE Can't do that anymore. The entire businsess model now is "charge fans more and the Superfans will make you money" And lets not even touch the drop in female fans. If businsess was booming and everyone was happy and healthy with a strong horizon, "times they are achangin'" might add up but as it stands, "Times change" just feels like "I have no retort to your valid points so f*** off." It's the same as "Well if people really didn't like it then why don't they stop watching!?" kinda loses it's luster if people by the millions legitimately are no longer watching it.
When the going gets tough, the tough go have a little cry in the corner.
"Your mustache is crooked" ~ R.I.P Randy Savage.
(edited 3 days ago)
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Maze_ posted...
How many wrestlers starting today do you think can have a 20-40 year active career? And of those few, how many could do so outside of WWE? Remember a lot of indy "wrestlers" have day jobs, because they can't sustain themselves on wrestling. As there is no money. Well not everyone is going to be a star so the logic that "well not everyone is making good money" doesnt work. Because i bet a lot of the guys on the indies are making more than some of the NXT/Main Roster guys. Maze_ posted... We're seeing a spirial for the entire industry, only one major company in the world and that by its own statements doesn't do wrestling it does "sports entertainment", wrestlers dying round the clock before they are 50 and indies that have shows in fields because arenas don't accept them and pay their "wrestlers" in pain pills and beer. IDK why you think because i said indy wrestling is pretty successful means every indy promotion is successful. I think that on average wrestlers and promotions are making more money than they were on the indies. Maze_ posted... It's the same as "Well if people really didn't like it then why don't they stop watching!?" kinda loses it's luster if people by the millions legitimately are no longer watching it. People arent watching WWE but Lucha Underground proved that people like wrestling until it went all s***ty. Maze_ posted... Even successful indy promotions are doing tiny shows with big specials or sometimes no spot shows at all. In the past weekly 2,000-17,000 crowd shows around territories year round was common. Right now even WWE Can't do that anymore. Wrestling did this when it was at its height, its clearly not there now. I never said wrestling is at record breaking popularity. I just said the indies are pretty successful right now
The night brims with defiled scum,and is permeated by their rotten stench.
Just think. Now you're all set to hunt and kill to your heart's content. |
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I4NRulez posted...
But that's the entire point. You didn't need to be a star to earn a living back in the day and you didn't blow your body out super fast And this was before major medical advancements of the past decade Because i bet a lot of the guys on the indies are making more than some of the NXT/Main Roster guys. Yeah the stars. But as you just said, only a few people can be. Sure for the top 20 wrestlers in the world they're earning more. But the next 200 aren't and there probably isn't even 2000 anymore. I4NRulez posted...
Lucha Underground isn't making a dime. Which says it all. I4NRulez posted...
That's literally the point. "Times change" is lazy when the "Times have changed to mean wrestling is down because the new stuff we tried isnt as good as the old." I never said wrestling is at record breaking popularity. I just said the indies are pretty successful right now Less successful than the old territories. Where Ole Anderson could earn the equivlent of 2 million dollars a year just visiting the same band of towns and never needing to board a plane unless he wanted to.
When the going gets tough, the tough go have a little cry in the corner.
"Your mustache is crooked" ~ R.I.P Randy Savage. |
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From what I understand Nakamura isn't event that big on strong style anymore. Guys like Tanahashi and Okada don't care for it much, either. I enjoy watching it, it's exciting, but at the same time brain damage sucks. If only there was a balance between strong style and traditional pro wrestling hmmmm
Noctis 841atk - 813.793.244
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BloodPump posted...
Tanahashi hates strong style too actually. He wrote quite a bit about it, too
I don't drink. I don't smoke. I don't do drugs. I am your sXe hero.
They should build a mosque in mecca. Right next to the dome of the rock. -- Lord Sideous |
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Dynedux posted...
From what I understand Nakamura isn't event that big on strong style anymore. Guys like Tanahashi and Okada don't care for it much, either. I enjoy watching it, it's exciting, but at the same time brain damage sucks. If only there was a balance between strong style and traditional pro wrestling hmmmm I bet Okada especially isn't a fan after Shibata
I don't drink. I don't smoke. I don't do drugs. I am your sXe hero.
They should build a mosque in mecca. Right next to the dome of the rock. -- Lord Sideous |
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AndreLeGeant posted...
I saw that. I think (hope) if nothing else we can all agree that was f***ing stupid. Throwing your career away for one moment that didn't even look very good and could have hurt the other guy.... Just why? People don't even throw headbutts in combat sports, it's just trying to pretend to be tough in fake fight
When the going gets tough, the tough go have a little cry in the corner.
"Your mustache is crooked" ~ R.I.P Randy Savage. |
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they didnt really talk about strong style much and they didnt seem to have an understanding of what it is but i explain strong style every time the topic comes up and i never seem to get anywhere with anyone
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Maze_ posted...
AndreLeGeant posted... That was monumentally stupid and I love Shibata. The worst thing is, he knows how to do a worked head butt! Imagine had he caused the same injury to Okada, too. cheese_game619 posted... they didnt really talk about strong style much and they didnt seem to have an understanding of what it is but i explain strong style every time the topic comes up and i never seem to get anywhere with anyone There's a tendency to confuse strong style with more generic fighting spirit. If anything, I think the NOAH version of King's Road influences more than strong style today.
I don't drink. I don't smoke. I don't do drugs. I am your sXe hero.
They should build a mosque in mecca. Right next to the dome of the rock. -- Lord Sideous |
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yeah he was talking about fighting spirit and the funniest part is that he is getting worked by safe shots and saying everyone thinks its fake
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cheese_game619 posted...
yeah he was talking about fighting spirit and the funniest part is that he is getting worked by safe shots and saying everyone thinks its fake Now I do think people are too crazy with forearms nowadays because they do have a high chance for failure compared to a worked punch. Too many people want to be like Nikkisawa
I don't drink. I don't smoke. I don't do drugs. I am your sXe hero.
They should build a mosque in mecca. Right next to the dome of the rock. -- Lord Sideous |
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BloodPump posted...
Amazak posted...Maze_ posted...Amazak posted...Grumpy old men yelling at clouds again... Shibata goes beyond Strong Style and just goes Stupid Style. You can still be Strong Style without doing stupid as f*** headbutt spots with no purpose.
Burn...let it all burn.
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Since Maze knows so much about wrestling, tell me how an inspiring wrestler can get noticed in Major wrestling companies like WWE(after being rejected by them in the first place)? These high spots Indy wrestlers like Ricohet and The Young Bucks are getting noticed by doing these crazy spots and entertaining the crowd no matter how small they are. You really think Ricohet would get noticed by wrestling like Hulk Hogan in 2017?
Toronto Raptors' fan and Kofi Kingston's brother.
Montgomery14 : DeKobe giveth what he taketh away. |
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Being able to cut a promo will make you stand out a lot more than any move will.
I don't drink. I don't smoke. I don't do drugs. I am your sXe hero.
They should build a mosque in mecca. Right next to the dome of the rock. -- Lord Sideous |
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If I knew how to be a globally inspiring wrestler while only having the in-ring talent of Hulk Hogan I'd be doing it myself. But the way to do it is obvious. Work a crowd.
The argument of "No you have to do 200 kicks and 50 dives and stiff shots that look terrible and risk injury in front of 200 who you can't work as there is no other way to be noticed." is nonsense. Just look at how Matt Hardy turned his career around by acting like the buffoon he was accused of being for 16 years. Compare the level of tag matches the Revival was putting on vs The Young Bucks and it's just comical. Why do you think the recent fantastic Dunn/Bate match only had one or two big dives and importance of both was massively played up and sold into the match? Look at how Brock Lesnar nearly ended his career by throwing a SSP into a match that didn't need it just because someone backstage knew he used to do them and thought it would look cool (true story) And yeah, if Ricohet had the talent to make the crowd care about him by working them, he could get over by working like Hogan did. Anyone who had that talent could, problem is the younger guys don't have that talent and seemingly less and less are trying to develop it. What you think The Rock was a great wrestler? Goldberg? Batista? Go watch The Rock vs Hogan on mute and you'll instantly see how bad your logic is.
When the going gets tough, the tough go have a little cry in the corner.
"Your mustache is crooked" ~ R.I.P Randy Savage. |
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AndreLeGeant posted...
Being able to cut a promo will make you stand out a lot more than any move will. That too. Also while we're naming things, getting popular elsewhere helps a lot too.
When the going gets tough, the tough go have a little cry in the corner.
"Your mustache is crooked" ~ R.I.P Randy Savage. |
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Jerry Lawler was drawing 5000-10000 fans a week in Memphis (not a big territory) for 30 years with not much more than a punch and a piledriver as his moveset. And a good chunk of those crowds were women and families. And even today almost 70 year old Lawler (who is in great health for his age compared to other wrestlers) can still draw 1000+ fans there.
He wasn't doing flips, dives, and superkicks and he certainly wasn't athletic nor did he have a great look. He was a master storyteller in the ring and was a top 10 or top 20 promo of all time and was a top 10 draw of all-time over his career.
Despite all my rage I'm still just a rabbit in a cage
XBL Gamertag: ninjarabbitmega |
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Raven thinks once you get five moves you should put all your attention into promos and a character. I think he's right.
I don't drink. I don't smoke. I don't do drugs. I am your sXe hero.
They should build a mosque in mecca. Right next to the dome of the rock. -- Lord Sideous |
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AndreLeGeant posted...
Raven thinks once you get five moves you should put all your attention into promos and a character. I think he's right. Well he's definately right in the sense that if you look at a list of the most popular/successful wrestlers of all time the ones that pretty much only have 5 moves outnumber those that have several.
When the going gets tough, the tough go have a little cry in the corner.
"Your mustache is crooked" ~ R.I.P Randy Savage. |
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I think the biggest difference between wrestlers in the past and today is that in the past wrestlers were working 8-10 shows a week so they learned to slow it down really quick and not kill themselves in the ring. Whereas indy wrestlers today might be lucky to work 4-6 matches a month so they are learning their craft at a much slower rate.
Despite all my rage I'm still just a rabbit in a cage
XBL Gamertag: ninjarabbitmega |
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Saitsuofleaves posted...
Stupid Style I'm reminded of Psy all of a sudden.
Not Changing This Until Nakamura Becomes WWE Champ 4/5/2016
Sevendown: http://www.writerscafe.org/writing/Blood_Pump/1818846/ |
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does strong style = stiff?
(X)_(X)
SUSANO'O!!!!! |
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AndreLeGeant posted...
Being able to cut a promo will make you stand out a lot more than any move will. Marty Scurll Fantastic character fantastic on the mic Can wrestle multiple styles is a TRUE heel the closest he's gotten to WWE is a qualifying match for the CWC which he lost
The Self Professed Bray Wyatt of the PWB. Bo Dallas for President.
Despair will always trump hope. Kyoko Kirigiri is Anabel. Thicke Wicke. FC: 4914-3689-7500 |
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All that swearing. Are they speaking in strong style? Haha
The Sexy Beasts of the PWB
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GTSjdc_H0eQ |
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saltedham posted...
does strong style = stiff? It is a stiff style but it isn't just what you call any stiff wrestling, its a specific style that was very popular in japan in the early 90s |
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That headbutt was f***ing stupid.
But I feel people are confusing too many things here. Flips, strong style, fighting spirit, etc. People are grouping it all together. And I firmly believe wrestling should be about working the crowd. Less is more. Make one thing huge and work the match around. Don't throw stupid moves around meaninglessly. Make peope care but take care of yourself. It's a f***ing business. If you don't work you don't get paid. No need for stupid risks.
A proud wrestling Smark, because we know better than you.
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f*** Strong Style.
The internet displays the savagery and stupidity of the human race in its purest form.
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"indy strong style dive fans"....
*sigh* This is such horses***. This is straight up old men yelling out clouds BS. Wrestling is a sport that injury is not really a matter of if but when. Brawlers, technical wrestlers, and high flyers all run the risk of getting hurt each night they go out there. Regardless of the era. Guys like Cornette and Russo who love to harp on the new era of wrestlers and how unsafe and unrealistic their "style" of wrestling is were also the same dudes in positions of power during an era that saw Austin have his neck broken and career cut short before age 40, the guy who broke Austin's neck die of a stupid stunt that in the grand scheme of things was pointless before age 40, Shawn Michaels being forced to retire initially at age 33 because of a back injury, Droz get paralyzed, Bret Hart get kicked in the head and forced to retire, Sid Vicious' WCW career ended after his leg snapped like a twig, Chris Benoit breaking Sabu's neck, and Brock breaking Hardcore Holly's neck. None of those from "...dives". How are these young guys doing all these "dives" more dangerous than the s*** Mick Foley was doing to get recognized back in the 90s? Guess what? It worked and Russo, Cornette, and McMahon all benefited greatly from it. That bump he took in the HiaC, the HIDEOUS amount of chairshots he took in that match with Rock, or the bumps he took in his matches vs. HHH in early 2000. The Hardyz AND Edge/Christian all got recognized based on their TiT Ladder Match in 1999. They broke through into superstardom based on their crazy dangerous matches with The Dudleyz in 2000. All those blade jobs, chair shots, and "hardcore" matches were much more hazardous to the health of their wrestlers than what guys like Ricochet and Ospreay are doing right now. Beyond that the mold they are following are guys who wrestled for YEARS in the indies and are now prominently featured in the WWE. Joe, Styles, Nakamura, Balor, are all over 35 and all of them are in good shape despite having wrestled similar styles that these bitter old dudes are lamenting. Also, lastly I'm gonna comment on the "You should know how to cut a promo, because that'll get you recognized" fallacy. Right, because that's done wonders getting Bray Wyatt, The Miz, and Enzo Amore on the fast track to the main event or sustained pushes where they are protected, prominently featured (consistently), and treated as top guys. The Miz put in some of if not his finest work on the mic for an entire year last year and his greatest feat was going over Dolph friggin' Ziggler in a prolonged feud for the IC title that he alone apparently made great. Meanwhile Jinder Mahal, who can't cut a promo to save his life is pushed to become world champion within a 3-4 week time span based solely off the whims of Vince McMahon. Cutting a promo doesn't mean anything if Vince and the higher ups don't want it to mean anything. Especially since the mass majority of them are scripted to hell and back anyways. Work rate resonates with the fans and gets a reaction these days. The anti-smarks, Russo, Cornette, and Rogers may all hate the "This is awesome" chants and crowds but in the end, in 2017, it's the matches that are getting the crowds amped and the reactions that indicate whether or not a wrestler is over. You can debate whether or not they are "truly over" if you like. Whatever. I wont'. What I will say is great matches or great spots get a reaction and the wrestlers who can consistently pull them off tend to be the ones the crowd clamor for the most. Whether you think that's right or wrong is your prerogative but the up and coming wrestlers who aren't hand picked by Vince, old timers who made their name in a different era, or lucky enough to benefit from one of Vince's whims aren't stupid for trying to get themselves over.
http://i.imgur.com/Vx0pB1i.jpg
Jena Frumes. That is all. #realtalk |
- Boards
- Pro Wrestling: WWE
- Big Jim Cornette and '...dive' Rip Rogers say Strong Style is stupid.
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